How much sleep constitutes "little sleep"? Forum

[smallfirmassociate]

This reminds me that science has identified a certain gene mutation that allows people who have it to function on about 4 hours of sleep per night. Martha Stewart is like that. I wish I was.

I have it. I've heard it called being an "elite sleeper." I can sleep 5 - 5.5 hours per day and feel great, Monday through Friday for example, pick when to go to bed (vs. getting really tired), and if I'm tired after 4-5 days of this I can log 12-13 hours one night on the weekend and feel great for another week or so, which is called "banking sleep" apparently.

I found out this was a thing when I had a temporary medical condition that made me sleep like a normal person / get tired every night / realize I couldn't just "push through" all of the time. Then I felt like an asshole for all the times in the past, whether professional or social, when I've pressured other people to not whine about a lack of sleep. It is a huge advantage in life and I treasure it. If you have it, just don't be an asshole to other people who need their sleep.

[homestyle28]

What's great about biglaw (and other sleep deprived professions) is that most people think they're "elite sleepers" b/c they've acclimated to how it feels, but their performance still suffers.

FWIW I get around 6 most nights, try to never dip below 5, but also drink quarts of coffee and sometimes just pass out in my office

[patentlitigatrix]

Common wisdom from those who go Big Law tends to be that an ability to function on little sleep is absolutely necessary. What does little sleep amount to? Clearly there are going to be fire drills that require extreme hours, but what is more indicative of a typical(if there even is any such thing) sleep schedule, or is it more firm/market /practice group specific?

I disagree with this, mainly because I do not have the ability or willingness to function on little sleep. I generally sleep 8-9 hours a night. During fire drills, I still won't get less than 5-6, and that doesn't happen often. It is simply not sustainable to not sleep, not eat right, not exercise, not spend time with family, etc.

[84651846190]

Common wisdom from those who go Big Law tends to be that an ability to function on little sleep is absolutely necessary. What does little sleep amount to? Clearly there are going to be fire drills that require extreme hours, but what is more indicative of a typical(if there even is any such thing) sleep schedule, or is it more firm/market /practice group specific?

I disagree with this, mainly because I do not have the ability or willingness to function on little sleep. I generally sleep 8-9 hours a night. During fire drills, I still won't get less than 5-6, and that doesn't happen often. It is simply not sustainable to not sleep, not eat right, not exercise, not spend time with family, etc.

I'm not sure the bolded is true for everyone. There are some freaks of nature out there who can bill 3000 hours (I never could). I will say, however, that the people who do sustain that kind of lifestyle are the kind of people no one else wants to be around in biglaw (generally partners).

[jrf12886]

Except when you're really slammed, the amount of sleep you get depends on how willing you are to give up doing other things with your time off. So say you're fairly busy and getting home at 10-11 pm every night. Most associates in NYC wake up somewhere around 8 or 8:30 (at least I did). So if you want your full 8 hours of sleep, you basically have 1-2 hours to do whatever it is you do on your own time (talk to sinificant other, cook, eat, clean, watch TV, etc.) If you are able to operate on less than 8 hours, then you can spend more time doing these things.

Personally, I always got 7-8 hours unless I was working a ton. For me, that was more important than having free time on weekday evenings. This starts to suck after a while because you end up feeling like your life is: work, sleep, repeat,....on a continuous loop. Hopefully you can recharge a bit on the weekends unless your life really sucks and you end up working a lot then too.

Also, if you have kids or a spouse, the above probably doesn't apply to you at all.

[Serett]

I try to get 7-8 as a rule, so I might stick to a pair of cats or escorts instead of a family.

[Anonymous User]

Except when you're really slammed, the amount of sleep you get depends on how willing you are to give up doing other things with your time off. So say you're fairly busy and getting home at 10-11 pm every night. Most associates in NYC wake up somewhere around 8 or 8:30 (at least I did). So if you want your full 8 hours of sleep, you basically have 1-2 hours to do whatever it is you do on your own time (talk to sinificant other, cook, eat, clean, watch TV, etc.) If you are able to operate on less than 8 hours, then you can spend more time doing these things.

Personally, I always got 7-8 hours unless I was working a ton. For me, that was more important than having free time on weekday evenings. This starts to suck after a while because you end up feeling like your life is: work, sleep, repeat,....on a continuous loop. Hopefully you can recharge a bit on the weekends unless your life really sucks and you end up working a lot then too.

Also, if you have kids or a spouse, the above probably doesn't apply to you at all.

This. I prefer 8 hours. Can operate on 5 or so for no more than two nights. What ends up happening is I get home at 11 or midnight and fall right asleep (literally sometimes without taking off my clothes or brushing) and then wake up the next day at 8. It does shit for personal hygiene but that is just the nature of the beast.

[BarbellDreams]

I freak out if I am getting less than 8, and less than 7 basically doesnt happen. I know science shows that the gene mutation exists and, if you have it (I don't), you can function on significantly less sleep. Honestly I need like 8 1/2 to 9 to truly feel good, but I can't afford to get that on anything but the weekends.

While I sleep 7 1/2 to 8 every day, I admit that I give up a ton of the social activities that the average person prioritizes. I prirotize sleep and going to the gym. Thus, my day typically revolves around coming home, changing and immediately going to the gym (have a snack at work an hour before leaving so I'm not hungry). When I get back from the gym, my wife and I literally eat while watching a 20 minute show, and go to bed. My week is literally just that. I don't sit around watching TV, I don't really have any other activities I spend time on, and we really don't go out or drink a lot so I skip all that. On the weekends we do fun stuff, but during the week its pretty bland and has been for years. We are just both like-minded about needing and prioritizing sleep for health purposes. I went to work on 5 hours of sleep once and I think I was just staring at the screen while sleeping with my eyes open. It was terrible. No idea how people do it.

[TheoO]

I freak out if I am getting less than 8, and less than 7 basically doesnt happen. I know science shows that the gene mutation exists and, if you have it (I don't), you can function on significantly less sleep. Honestly I need like 8 1/2 to 9 to truly feel good, but I can't afford to get that on anything but the weekends.

While I sleep 7 1/2 to 8 every day, I admit that I give up a ton of the social activities that the average person prioritizes. I prirotize sleep and going to the gym. Thus, my day typically revolves around coming home, changing and immediately going to the gym (have a snack at work an hour before leaving so I'm not hungry). When I get back from the gym, my wife and I literally eat while watching a 20 minute show, and go to bed. My week is literally just that. I don't sit around watching TV, I don't really have any other activities I spend time on, and we really don't go out or drink a lot so I skip all that. On the weekends we do fun stuff, but during the week its pretty bland and has been for years. We are just both like-minded about needing and prioritizing sleep for health purposes. I went to work on 5 hours of sleep once and I think I was just staring at the screen while sleeping with my eyes open. It was terrible. No idea how people do it.

How much longer do you think you can keep it going?

[BarbellDreams]

I freak out if I am getting less than 8, and less than 7 basically doesnt happen. I know science shows that the gene mutation exists and, if you have it (I don't), you can function on significantly less sleep. Honestly I need like 8 1/2 to 9 to truly feel good, but I can't afford to get that on anything but the weekends.

While I sleep 7 1/2 to 8 every day, I admit that I give up a ton of the social activities that the average person prioritizes. I prirotize sleep and going to the gym. Thus, my day typically revolves around coming home, changing and immediately going to the gym (have a snack at work an hour before leaving so I'm not hungry). When I get back from the gym, my wife and I literally eat while watching a 20 minute show, and go to bed. My week is literally just that. I don't sit around watching TV, I don't really have any other activities I spend time on, and we really don't go out or drink a lot so I skip all that. On the weekends we do fun stuff, but during the week its pretty bland and has been for years. We are just both like-minded about needing and prioritizing sleep for health purposes. I went to work on 5 hours of sleep once and I think I was just staring at the screen while sleeping with my eyes open. It was terrible. No idea how people do it.

How much longer do you think you can keep it going?

I'm a '13 grad so have been doing it for years now. Seems to work for us. We get a total of 1 hour for dinner + TV before bed time every day. I think sitting around watching TV all day or drinking non stop is a waste, so I don't really feel like I'm missing out. The gym is a huge part of both of our lives and I get to do that, which I consider fun, every day so its not too bad. I have also made my morning routine super efficient so I can get ready from alarm to out the door in ~40 minutes. If I shave at night while my wife cooks dinner I can make it under 30, leading to even more sleep. Some days we slip up and get 7 hours, which I feel awful after, but a lot of the stories I hear here about 7 hours being a "good" nights sleep are terrifying.

[DELG]

What's great about biglaw (and other sleep deprived professions) is that most people think they're "elite sleepers" b/c they've acclimated to how it feels, but their performance still suffers.

FWIW I get around 6 most nights, try to never dip below 5, but also drink quarts of coffee and sometimes just pass out in my office

I thought I was fine when I was spending 3-5 hours a day commuting but after I stopped my skin suddenly looked a million times better. So I assume the lack of sleep was killing me.

[haus]

What's great about biglaw (and other sleep deprived professions) is that most people think they're "elite sleepers" b/c they've acclimated to how it feels, but their performance still suffers.

FWIW I get around 6 most nights, try to never dip below 5, but also drink quarts of coffee and sometimes just pass out in my office

I thought I was fine when I was spending 3-5 hours a day commuting but after I stopped my skin suddenly looked a million times better. So I assume the lack of sleep was killing me.

I seem to average about 5.5 hours a night. With a demanding job (InfoSec), being on call all the time, a long commute (2-4 hours per day), a family, and part time school, it can drift down to 3 hours per night for a week or longer. I do feel better when I can put together a few nights with more than 7 hours per night, but it does not happen often. The stretches of 3 hours or less take a toll, my ability to focus goes down considerably, and my mood goes to hell.

[patentlitigatrix]

Common wisdom from those who go Big Law tends to be that an ability to function on little sleep is absolutely necessary. What does little sleep amount to? Clearly there are going to be fire drills that require extreme hours, but what is more indicative of a typical(if there even is any such thing) sleep schedule, or is it more firm/market /practice group specific?

I disagree with this, mainly because I do not have the ability or willingness to function on little sleep. I generally sleep 8-9 hours a night. During fire drills, I still won't get less than 5-6, and that doesn't happen often. It is simply not sustainable to not sleep, not eat right, not exercise, not spend time with family, etc.

I'm not sure the bolded is true for everyone. There are some freaks of nature out there who can bill 3000 hours (I never could). I will say, however, that the people who do sustain that kind of lifestyle are the kind of people no one else wants to be around in biglaw (generally partners).

Yeah, agree. This is a good qualification on what I said. Also, 3000 hours is insane. Billing 2000 still feels like a lot to me.