Fourth-Year BigLaw Associate Answering Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Litigation in a non-New York market.

Fire away and I'll answer as I'm able.

[SEngland]

How much of your starting first year class is left? Are you fat?

[barkschool]

Curious to know what your past four years of billables are, and if you are married/single/divorced and if you could rate your happiness on a scale of 1-10.

[Go Bears]

Ha. I'm not fat. I get up and work out at 4 a.m. each morning to keep from getting fat. Nonetheless, I've stilled put on about 20 pounds since I started. (Some of it's good weight, I think.) I'd like to get rid of an inch or two still, but I'm pretty cognizant of the problems that can result from sitting around all day stuffing your face.

I'd have to go through the names, but I'm guessing maybe a little more than half are left. There were 35 of us, I think, give or take. The thing is, you really don't run into the transaction people very much, so I'm not sure who is still around and who isn't. I would definitely say much less than half of my 40-person summer class, because some never even start.

[GreenEggs]

If you could do it all over again, would you have wanted to do transactional work?

[Go Bears]

I was really low my first year - I didn't get a bonus. I probably had 1,200 or 1,300 hours. Something like that. It was slow, and I didn't get the idea that the group head cared much about associate development.

My second year I was at 2,100, I think. Last year I was at 2,377. Some of that was pro bono - maybe 400-500 hours of it. But I got a bonus as if I had billed 2,400 hours.

I'm married with two children under 7 years old. Happiness? Hmmm ... that's a great question. It depends on the day. Personally, nearly a 10. The kids wear us out, but our marriage is really strong, we have our dream house (God willing we can keep it), and everyone's healthy. Professionally? I'm very grateful to be here, though I don't see myself making partner. I've been pretty busy lately, but I wish I could get my hands on some more substantive tasks. Partners tend to hog it. I'd say ... 5? It can be a pretty boring gig. And the review process is a black cloud that never goes away.

[Anonymous User]

I would at least have given transactional work in the summer. I like fast-paced work, for one thing. And I think that they are more marketable outside the firm quicker than litigation associates. That said, their work seems really boring. And they seem to have longer and more unpredictable hours than we do.

[SEngland]

Are your peers generally happy?

[Anonymous User]

I get the feeling that most people are generally happy, yes. People are making good money, living in a cool city, and they all have bright futures ahead of them. It may not be here, of course. But for many, that's a positive. Don't get me wrong. It can be a very demanding, stressful, tedious job. I wish I could put my phone away all weekend like a normal person. And I wish that I could ask how to do something without fear it will show up negatively on a review. But we're all generally happy. I think we realize how fortunate we are, even if, day-to-day, we understand this isn't the most thrilling life around.

[mvp99]

Do you think things (energy, overall happiness, your physical health, etc.) would be better if you didn't have kids?

[Anonymous User]

My overall happiness would be worse without kids. They are the two bright shining lights of my existence. (Well, three, including their mother). That said, I was a returning student who had worked a few years first. If you can help it, I wouldn't recommend having children when you are a junior and mid-level associate. Probably not as an associate at all. It's just one more thing you have to juggle, and it can get very exhausting. Plus, they are only little once, and every hour at work is an hour missed at home. (On the flip side, every hour at home is an hour taken away from your professional development.)

It's really tough. We had a baby when I was a first-year, and my wife was suffering from what seemed to be some post-partum depression symptoms. Plus, we had a couple of close family members die, which exacerbated things. That was no way to get a foothold. That said, don't bail on your existing relationships for this. It's good to have someone away from biglaw to come home to.

[Anonymous User]

One thing I would tell you is to be careful with the drinking. It's an easy trap to fall into when you are under constant stress. I'm not a foodie in any other way, but I enjoy trying different beers and whiskeys and mixing drinks. (Not much of a wine drinker.) And as my intake went up and up and up, I was justifying it as, essentially, a foodie thing. But I'm sure there was some self-medicating going on. I still enjoy a drink or two three or four times a week, but I've really cut back. Like I said, it's an easy trap to get sucked into in this line of work. Money + Stress.

[WalnutSurprise]

Are your kids ever awake when you're home? How much sleep do you get (who wakes up at 4 in biglaw?)? Does billing 2377 hours not bother you?

[Anonymous User]

They are typically not up before I leave for work. I leave at 6. I live in the suburbs, so it's lights out at 10, or when the White Sox or Blackhawks game ends, up at 4, work out from 4:30-5:30, shower and get ready from 5:30-6:30, in the office 7:20-7:30. I leave anywhere from 4:53-5:41 most nights. Usually either 4:53 or 5:15. Of course, there are those kind of nights when you're here for the duration.

The kids are up when I get home around 6:36-7, and I spend anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half or so with them. I put one of them to bed. There's also the weekends.

But, indeed, I would like to spend more time with them.

[rpupkin]

They are typically not up before I leave for work. I leave at 6. I live in the suburbs, so it's lights out at 10, or when the White Sox or Blackhawks game ends, up at 4, work out from 4:30-5:30, shower and get ready from 5:30-6:30, in the office 7:20-7:30. I leave anywhere from 4:53-5:41 most nights. Usually either 4:53 or 5:15. Of course, there are those kind of nights when you're here for the duration.

The kids are up when I get home around 6:36-7, and I spend anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half or so with them. I put one of them to bed. There's also the weekends.

But, indeed, I would like to spend more time with them.

Are you superstitious or something?

[Anonymous User]

Ha, ha. No. 6:36 is a typo. But 4:53, etc. is because it's 20 minutes precisely before the train leaves.

[Anonymous User]

Ha, ha. No. 6:36 is a typo. But 4:53, etc. is because it's 20 minutes precisely before the train leaves.

[kcdc1]

Do you log back on from home? Catch any sideways looks for leaving around 5 most days? I'd like to be early-in, early-out, but even if I'm hitting my hours, I worry about leaving before others.

[mu13ski]

If you don't see yourself making partner, what do you see as your next professional step? Do you worry about maintaining your current lifestyle post-biglaw or are you living frugally now?
At what point did you make the move from downtown to the suburbs?

[Anonymous User]

I don't get the feeling anyone notices or cares what time you leave. They don't know where you're going or what you're doing. Partners typically leave early. When there's more work to be done, I work on it on the train or at home after the kids are in bed. I'm sure people fret because I'm always in so early compared to them. It's all relative.

We always lived in the suburbs.

I wouldn't say we're even living the biglaw lifestyle now. We haven't really had a real vacation. We did a "staycation" where we got a hotel in the city with the kids and went to the museums and so forth. We went to the Kentucky Derby last year, which was just two nights. Our mortgage payment is around $3,100. We have the same two cars we had in law school - one of them from before law school. Then there's food for four people, which adds up. Kids are very, very expensive.

My hope is to land at a litigation boutique eventually and become a partner at a place like that.

[mu13ski]

Do you have an idea of how the amount of substantive work you're seeing compares to other lit associates in your market?
Is the no vacation thing four years in typical or do you think that is in part due to you having a family? If you wanted to take a week for a family vacation, how do you think that would go over? Would you still be expected to work remotely?
Finally, any suggestions for junior lit associates? Mistakes to avoid? Things to do to get substantive work earlier?

Much thanks for your time and responses.

[Anonymous User]

The vacation thing is totally on me and part of having very small children. My colleagues travel quite a bit, and, to my knowledge, no one has an issue with it at all. I mean, plan intelligently - if you have a trial scheduled, don't plan a two-week trip to Europe three weeks before. But people here travel quite a bit, from what I can tell.

I'll get to the advice later this weekend for you, because I have some work to finish up here before the weekend begins. But I definitely have some thoughts on that.

[October25]

Thanks for doing this.

I'm interested in lit, but I'm worried about options after my inevitable biglaw exit. Can you speak more about what you see as viable long-term options for someone in a position like yours?

What percentage of your work do you find actually enjoyable or mentally engaging? And how has this changed over the years.

[RaceJudicata]

Tagging. Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I -- and I'm sure others -- see themselves in your shoes in the next several years (biglaw, family, balancing act, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

At my firm (V15-20), the litigation associates seem to leave for in-house positions, government jobs (and not just A-USA jobs), and public interest jobs. Some move back to big law/mid law firms closer to home. I'm more interested in either working at a boutique firm, or doing something out of the box like legal journalism. I'm not really the company man type, so in-house is almost of no interest. I'll say this: No one seems to struggle to find a soft landing. I've interviewed at several boutiques, but no offers yet.

I wish the work were more substantive, although it's getting more so. That said, doc review gets a bad rap. You guys will come to understand how vital it is to be the person who knows the facts of the matter inside and out. It makes you indispensable. I've been unlucky to be on some cases that are very partner-heavy. It's cool to read about your matter in the WSJ. Not so great to see new partners recruited onto the case to handle reps, even though you are the one who knows every nook and cranny of a complex antitrust dispute.