Loyola PLIP 2016 Thread Forum

[mohdban]

As bidding is now open for this year's Loyola PLIP, I thought creating this thread could be helpful.

This time, there are 137 unique firms coming to PLIP. There are 323 postings total on Symplicity (accounting for multiple offices per firm).

Symplicity website:
https://law-patent-csm.symplicity.com//students/

IMPORTANT DATES FOR STUDENTS
Tuesday, April 12 Student Bidding Begins
Sunday, May 1 Deadline for Student Bidding
Monday, June 27 Initial interview schedules available on Symplicity
Monday, June 27 - Wednesday, June 26 Interview Cancellation Period
Friday, July 1 Final Schedules available on Symplicity
Wednesday, August 3 Sterne, Kessler, Goldstein & Fox Welcome Reception (Open to all participating students)
Thursday, August 4 & Friday, August 5 2016 Patent Law Interview Program

I will keep updating this post.

[DecisionMaker100]

.

[Bluem_11]

How dead this thread is (and the 1 or 2 other PLIP threads that have popped up) relative to past years seems correlated to engineering majors enrolling in law school.

[Anonymous User]

How dead this thread is (and the 1 or 2 other PLIP threads that have popped up) relative to past years seems correlated to engineering majors enrolling in law school.

Informally, there were 20-30 patent eligible people in my T14 class five years ago. When I went to campus earlier this year, there were 5 in the current 1L class.

I'm jealous. You guys are going to be beating $180k offers away with a stick.

[Abbie Doobie]

How dead this thread is (and the 1 or 2 other PLIP threads that have popped up) relative to past years seems correlated to engineering majors enrolling in law school.

probably a good decision for them. patent work just ain't what it used to be.

[Bluem_11]

How dead this thread is (and the 1 or 2 other PLIP threads that have popped up) relative to past years seems correlated to engineering majors enrolling in law school.

probably a good decision for them. patent work just ain't what it used to be.

I work with a number of IP lawyers and I hear both sides. Some feel like decline of applicants keeps their skills in demand and still enjoy the work/puzzles, others hate how rise of "flat-fee" has turned them into application churning machines.

Guess depends on your perspective and what you want out of the job.

[KunAgnis]

Does anyone have experience with PLIP and how competitive it is in terms of converting screeners to offers? Obviously there will be soft factors involved (my credentials, how well I interview, whether I've sacrificed animals for good luck (Im kidding about the last one)), but if anyone could speak about how their experience was that would be great.

[Anonymous User]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

[anonnymouse]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

1. Back to back is fine, do-able. Back to back to back gonna crash hard on third interview. Drop whichever of the three you want the least.
2. Stairs. Don't bring/wear a backpack. Small briefcase or padfolio is sufficient. If you must use the elevator, the trick is to take it down to ground floor then ride it back up to your destination. But that's douchey. Just take the stairs. Besides, most screeners are running late by like the fourth interview anyway so you have a built in excuse.

[KunAgnis]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

1. Back to back is fine, do-able. Back to back to back gonna crash hard on third interview. Drop whichever of the three you want the least.
2. Stairs. Don't bring/wear a backpack. Small briefcase or padfolio is sufficient. If you must use the elevator, the trick is to take it down to ground floor then ride it back up to your destination. But that's douchey. Just take the stairs. Besides, most screeners are running late by like the fourth interview anyway so you have a built in excuse.

I have a back to back to back; do you mind sharing what makes it so hard? Is it switching mental gears in time, or the physical (running around the hotel) or both?

Maybe I'm greedy, but in my situation the rooms are one floor apart and I want to give it a shot, since I feel these firms are so hard to screen with. Any thoughts?

[faintbeam]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

1. Back to back is fine, do-able. Back to back to back gonna crash hard on third interview. Drop whichever of the three you want the least.
2. Stairs. Don't bring/wear a backpack. Small briefcase or padfolio is sufficient. If you must use the elevator, the trick is to take it down to ground floor then ride it back up to your destination. But that's douchey. Just take the stairs. Besides, most screeners are running late by like the fourth interview anyway so you have a built in excuse.

I have a back to back to back; do you mind sharing what makes it so hard? Is it switching mental gears in time, or the physical (running around the hotel) or both?

Maybe I'm greedy, but in my situation the rooms are one floor apart and I want to give it a shot, since I feel these firms are so hard to screen with. Any thoughts?

I think it's fine to have three interviews back to back. Just realize that it may be difficult to 1) get to the second and third interviews due to schedules running late (of course the interview that you're going to may also be running late), and 2) remember the interviewers bios or firm particulars that you may want to mention if you don't have time to refresh prior to the screener. I created short one page cheat sheets for each firm with the interviewers/firm details for this reason and refreshed as I walked to the next interview. I think it worked fine enough.

[robert88]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

[faintbeam]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

[robert88]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

[KunAgnis]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

1. Back to back is fine, do-able. Back to back to back gonna crash hard on third interview. Drop whichever of the three you want the least.
2. Stairs. Don't bring/wear a backpack. Small briefcase or padfolio is sufficient. If you must use the elevator, the trick is to take it down to ground floor then ride it back up to your destination. But that's douchey. Just take the stairs. Besides, most screeners are running late by like the fourth interview anyway so you have a built in excuse.

I have a back to back to back; do you mind sharing what makes it so hard? Is it switching mental gears in time, or the physical (running around the hotel) or both?

Maybe I'm greedy, but in my situation the rooms are one floor apart and I want to give it a shot, since I feel these firms are so hard to screen with. Any thoughts?

I think it's fine to have three interviews back to back. Just realize that it may be difficult to 1) get to the second and third interviews due to schedules running late (of course the interview that you're going to may also be running late), and 2) remember the interviewers bios or firm particulars that you may want to mention if you don't have time to refresh prior to the screener. I created short one page cheat sheets for each firm with the interviewers/firm details for this reason and refreshed as I walked to the next interview. I think it worked fine enough.

Excellent, thank you. On another note, how is the practice group that you work in? Are there a large contingent, or is it very small? I have it on a good source that Skadden (I may be getting the wrong name here) and another firm have very small IP group so you get substantive experience from the get go but they hold your nose to the grinder. Is this true? What are your thoughts? If you're in a larger IP department, do you still get substantive experience?

[faintbeam]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

I'm in the IP group of a biglaw GP firm. It came down to my firm and a well-known large IP boutique, so I thought about this a lot. In the end, you're going to get great work and you're going to work with great people at either, I'm sure. I don't know if one over the other provides better prospects for lateraling or going in-house because I've heard arguments for both.

I have a grad degree and didn't want to be pushed into doing only prosecution work. I wanted transactional experience as well, and from everyone I spoke with, that was not an easy combo to get in an IP boutique, no matter the size (mostly because IP boutiques just don't do deal work like at a GP). Who knows, maybe not an easy combo to get at every GP but at least there was a chance. Plus after spending 4 years as a STEM major and 5 years in a grad school lab, I just didn't want to be around a bunch of scientists turned patent attorneys all the time. So I choose GP and haven't had any regrets. I do transactional and prosecution work, so it seems to have worked out like I wanted.

[robert88]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

I'm in the IP group of a biglaw GP firm. It came down to my firm and a well-known large IP boutique, so I thought about this a lot. In the end, you're going to get great work and you're going to work with great people at either, I'm sure. I don't know if one over the other provides better prospects for lateraling or going in-house because I've heard arguments for both.

I have a grad degree and didn't want to be pushed into doing only prosecution work. I wanted transactional experience as well, and from everyone I spoke with, that was not an easy combo to get in an IP boutique, no matter the size (mostly because IP boutiques just don't do deal work like at a GP). Who knows, maybe not an easy combo to get at every GP but at least there was a chance. Plus after spending 4 years as a STEM major and 5 years in a grad school lab, I just didn't want to be around a bunch of scientists turned patent attorneys all the time. So I choose GP and haven't had any regrets. I do transactional and prosecution work, so it seems to have worked out like I wanted.

Thank you for your insights, and that's precisely what I was looking for. Do you have any advice for the hospitality suite experience?

[faintbeam]

I somehow ended up with 23 preselect and 3 alternates. The alternates have not come to fruition as of now. I am honestly terrified by the number of firms (well, one of them is a company), and am wondering if anyone has advice on preparing for back to back questioning ahead of time? Of course, researching firms and mock interviews are a must, but what else can I do to go into this fully prepared?

Also, if anyone from previous years would chime in on how you make it from one to the next to the next without getting sweaty, I would greatly appreciate it.

1. Back to back is fine, do-able. Back to back to back gonna crash hard on third interview. Drop whichever of the three you want the least.
2. Stairs. Don't bring/wear a backpack. Small briefcase or padfolio is sufficient. If you must use the elevator, the trick is to take it down to ground floor then ride it back up to your destination. But that's douchey. Just take the stairs. Besides, most screeners are running late by like the fourth interview anyway so you have a built in excuse.

I have a back to back to back; do you mind sharing what makes it so hard? Is it switching mental gears in time, or the physical (running around the hotel) or both?

Maybe I'm greedy, but in my situation the rooms are one floor apart and I want to give it a shot, since I feel these firms are so hard to screen with. Any thoughts?

I think it's fine to have three interviews back to back. Just realize that it may be difficult to 1) get to the second and third interviews due to schedules running late (of course the interview that you're going to may also be running late), and 2) remember the interviewers bios or firm particulars that you may want to mention if you don't have time to refresh prior to the screener. I created short one page cheat sheets for each firm with the interviewers/firm details for this reason and refreshed as I walked to the next interview. I think it worked fine enough.

Excellent, thank you. On another note, how is the practice group that you work in? Are there a large contingent, or is it very small? I have it on a good source that Skadden (I may be getting the wrong name here) and another firm have very small IP group so you get substantive experience from the get go but they hold your nose to the grinder. Is this true? What are your thoughts? If you're in a larger IP department, do you still get substantive experience?

Large. I don't think Skadden does prep & pros (if that's what you're referring to) but I could be wrong. My experience in a biglaw IP group is that you get substantive experience from the start. We don't really have time to hold your hand (the best way to learn is to do), and there's really no point in you being here if you're not going to do substantive work...I can't speak from a smaller firm perspective though.

When it's time to ask questions, you may want to inquire about client development experience and client contact - I think those tend to vary more between law firms than whether you are getting substantive work experience.

[faintbeam]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

I'm in the IP group of a biglaw GP firm. It came down to my firm and a well-known large IP boutique, so I thought about this a lot. In the end, you're going to get great work and you're going to work with great people at either, I'm sure. I don't know if one over the other provides better prospects for lateraling or going in-house because I've heard arguments for both.

I have a grad degree and didn't want to be pushed into doing only prosecution work. I wanted transactional experience as well, and from everyone I spoke with, that was not an easy combo to get in an IP boutique, no matter the size (mostly because IP boutiques just don't do deal work like at a GP). Who knows, maybe not an easy combo to get at every GP but at least there was a chance. Plus after spending 4 years as a STEM major and 5 years in a grad school lab, I just didn't want to be around a bunch of scientists turned patent attorneys all the time. So I choose GP and haven't had any regrets. I do transactional and prosecution work, so it seems to have worked out like I wanted.

Thank you for your insights, and that's precisely what I was looking for. Do you have any advice for the hospitality suite experience?

I went to one hospitality suite and didn't find it helpful because it didn't have any attorneys - just an HR person. I also had a number of screeners so I didn't really care to go to any more and there were always so many people crammed in there. If you go to a suite, I'd go to one that actually has attorneys who you can speak with. Sometimes they just stock them with only HR people and then your resume goes into a pile. If you can make an impression with the attorneys, it would probably be worth it if your GPA isn't horrible and within their range. Unfortunately, no matter how awesome you may be, many firms still have GPA cutoffs.

[Bluem_11]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

I chose a boutique because I found based on my internship and talking to others, that it tends to on average (your experiences may vary) be a more lax work environment and I had to do a lot of travelling for personal reasons, so couldn't afford to be in a car 3-5 hours a week on top of non-legal stuff out of town when I need to bill out 2000+. Lot of people to bounce stuff off.

The cons are less money, less glamour, fewer if any firm 'events', gets kind of lonely.

[KunAgnis]

this year's PLIP thread seems to be very quiet compared to previous years....

Agreed. FWIW, I'm a junior associate at a GP firm who got a summer position and job from PLIP (still at the same firm). Happy to answer questions as they come up or when I can get to them.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how did you decide on a GP firm instead of a boutique? What are the Pros and Cons?

I chose a boutique because I found based on my internship and talking to others, that it tends to on average (your experiences may vary) be a more lax work environment and I had to do a lot of travelling for personal reasons, so couldn't afford to be in a car 3-5 hours a week on top of non-legal stuff out of town when I need to bill out 2000+. Lot of people to bounce stuff off.

The cons are less money, less glamour, fewer if any firm 'events', gets kind of lonely.

And another con may be harder to lateral out should one get fired or wish to find another job, I would figure. Not entirely sure bout that but I heard from a former patent agent who is currently working with Jones Day as an associate so

[Bluem_11]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I haven't looked anywhere else I like my job. People come and go so I assume people are finding work somewhere. From people I talked to at my firm who have been to different places, if you're not in training mode, and can make the firm you're going to a profit whether due to expertise in prosecution or less important your tech background, you can find work. There are postings everywhere for prosecutors with 2-4 years experience.

[UCLAHopeful16]

I have 5 screeners. Any chance of snagging a CB/future offer from 5 interviews?

[Anonymous User]

And another con may be harder to lateral out should one get fired or wish to find another job, I would figure. Not entirely sure bout that but I heard from a former patent agent who is currently working with Jones Day as an associate so

It might hurt a little. I do know of someone that went from working with a solo practitioner to one of the largest law firms in the world in terms of headcount though. It's fairly common to move around different sized firms in prosecution. Larger firms will give you more variety of work.

Patent prosecution is based on a skill. You either have it or you don't. It's independent of your resume. When you interview to lateral at a firm, people only really care about the answers to 2 questions: (1) How long does it take you to write an application? and (2) How long does it take you to write a response to an Office Action?

[faintbeam]

I have 5 screeners. Any chance of snagging a CB/future offer from 5 interviews?

always a chance!