Summer Associate Class of 2016 Forum

[Glasseyes]

Thoughts on earbuds in the office as an SA? I'm shying away from it though some associates here do it all the time and my SA officemate has resorted to doing the same while on Westlaw, writing memos, etc. Wondering what a partner might think who popped their head in while I was jamming out, but it seems culturally "normal" at this firm at least. Then again as an SA, not interested in rocking the boat

Fucking lol I love you guys

Nobody gives a flying fuck

Do partners actually pop into summer associates' (or even real associates') offices? 3.5 weeks in, that seems so bizarre to me.

I can't imagine this ever happening where I'm currently sitting. First they'd have to find me, which might involve traveling many floors and navigating a labyrinth of random doors, confusing numbers, and booby traps set by summers past. I get lost daily.

Also: everyone here wears headphones, no one cares. Probably has to do with the size of the office. Still glad I made that other thread as a monument to paranoia.

[lavarman84]

Thoughts on earbuds in the office as an SA? I'm shying away from it though some associates here do it all the time and my SA officemate has resorted to doing the same while on Westlaw, writing memos, etc. Wondering what a partner might think who popped their head in while I was jamming out, but it seems culturally "normal" at this firm at least. Then again as an SA, not interested in rocking the boat

Fucking lol I love you guys

Nobody gives a flying fuck

Do partners actually pop into summer associates' (or even real associates') offices? 3.5 weeks in, that seems so bizarre to me.

Yep. But I'm not at a typical biglaw firm.(it's biglaw but different...as I've said many many times in this thread ) But I've had it happen a few times. I generally go meet them in their office out of respect but sometimes they'll pop in unannounced wanting to chat.

[Anonymous User]

Got put on real work. Which was cool.

The whole set of documents is due tomorrow. Which is not cool.

[Slytherpuff]

I just got a tax assignment today - I know nothing about tax but it's for a cool client, so I'm excited about that at least. I otherwise have a mix between real work (prepping for various filings and hearings) and partners' pet projects they want a summer to look into.

[pancakes3]

Got put on real work. Which was cool.

The whole set of documents is due tomorrow. Which is not cool.

real work is terrifying.

[anyriotgirl]

the partner in the office next to mine will stop by to chit chat occasionally because I am a cheerful captive audience and a sycophant

[lavarman84]

Got put on real work. Which was cool.

The whole set of documents is due tomorrow. Which is not cool.

real work is terrifying.

I like it. Feels good when you see your work get read and used.

[PeanutsNJam]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

[lavarman84]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

What's the problem?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck

Cuz you don't know anything

and will I get better with time?

Yea once you learn stuff

[Bluem_11]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

You probably won't know much for law firm work once you graduate either, there will still be a lengthy training process, but as a rising 2L, you've yet to take classes like Evidence, Corporations, and many others that would somewhat prepare you better. Don't be weird and act like you care and you'll be fine.

[cannibal ox]

I don't think 10 weeks is long enough to figure out how to sit in an office chair all day and not have it feel like my back is imploding in on itself.

[Anonymous User]

Shower thought: is the time it takes my assigning attorney to return edits/comments on my work a pretty good metric for how busy they/ their practice are? I imagine (but could well be wrong) that real attorneys are only looking at work from summers when they have a lull between billable work. I don't ask people about how much they're working, and any time I'm in the conversation when another summer asks, the attorney's answer is always understandably vague.

[Anonymous User]

What are you guys doing as a SA? All I do is legal research and proofread. No writing unless I summarize cases. Is it normal? I work at a boutique firm.

[Anonymous User]

I've been getting pretty decent with excel (so many charts/checklists). And 80% of the attorneys I work for just want to make tables in Word like fucking cavemen. But yeah, as far as I can tell, what you describe seems to be pretty much what the job has been like for me.

[PeanutsNJam]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

What's the problem?

Pathern I respect was just really disappointed that I used a casual tone on an internal memo (using "we/us" instead of referring directly to our client) and some imprecise pronoun usage. I also thought that I was supposed to restrict my research to mandatory authority, but was wrong. Pathern not mad, just disappointed.

I don't have problems with like bigger picture legal analysis/argument structure in the memo, but I have a bunch of attention to detail fails. In retrospect, I didn't take the memo as seriously as I should have because I figured since it's not going to a client, it's not that important.

This is the first actual feedback I've had on a research memo so I'll just fix it in the future, but yeah idk it seems like the response to the stuff I've done is a consistent .

Re: work product, I've had internal research memos, drafting a trial outline (for a slam dunk case), draft a low-important demand letter, and gonna draft a very low-importance patent application in the next couple days. Case summary too. I have yet to have proofread assignments or do clerical stuff. I guess that's one of the benefits of small-biglaw? (150-200 attorneys). I get more stuff to do. I mean all my final work product is either inconsequential or will be heavily edited, but it's a useful exercise I suppose.

[El Pollito]

it sounds like maybe you need to ask more preliminary questions before going off on your own and putting out work product

[postard]

They want you to write a patent app in two days w/ little experience? How could they be expect to be anything but disappointed, that seems like a deep end to drop you.

[barkschool]

They want you to write a patent app in two days w/ little experience? How could they be expect to be anything but disappointed, that seems like a deep end to drop you.

Punishment for his informal tone

[nick417]

I don't think 10 weeks is long enough to figure out how to sit in an office chair all day and not have it feel like my back is imploding in on itself.

Wait until you have to study for the bar exam.... you will figure out how to sit all day then.

[lavarman84]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

What's the problem?

Pathern I respect was just really disappointed that I used a casual tone on an internal memo (using "we/us" instead of referring directly to our client) and some imprecise pronoun usage. I also thought that I was supposed to restrict my research to mandatory authority, but was wrong. Pathern not mad, just disappointed.

I don't have problems with like bigger picture legal analysis/argument structure in the memo, but I have a bunch of attention to detail fails. In retrospect, I didn't take the memo as seriously as I should have because I figured since it's not going to a client, it's not that important.

This is the first actual feedback I've had on a research memo so I'll just fix it in the future, but yeah idk it seems like the response to the stuff I've done is a consistent .

Re: work product, I've had internal research memos, drafting a trial outline (for a slam dunk case), draft a low-important demand letter, and gonna draft a very low-importance patent application in the next couple days. Case summary too. I have yet to have proofread assignments or do clerical stuff. I guess that's one of the benefits of small-biglaw? (150-200 attorneys). I get more stuff to do. I mean all my final work product is either inconsequential or will be heavily edited, but it's a useful exercise I suppose.

This is totally normal. I made the same mistakes with the casual tone and have a few other things to work on. Nobody ever acted disappointed, though. They just gave me the good and the bad. You shouldn't be surprised. You're going to make mistakes. You're new to this. Just make sure you're improving and implementing the suggestions they make.

[lavarman84]

What are you guys doing as a SA? All I do is legal research and proofread. No writing unless I summarize cases. Is it normal? I work at a boutique firm.

Nah. Most of what I do involves written work since that's one of the things they're trying to assess. But legal research is the bulk of it.

[Anonymous User]

I mostly do due diligence and updating ancillary documents.

[Bluem_11]

Ok I nailed 1L but I'm quite bad at doing real work help fast

I haven't been chewed out or anything but why do I suck and will I get better with time?

What's the problem?

Pathern I respect was just really disappointed that I used a casual tone on an internal memo (using "we/us" instead of referring directly to our client) and some imprecise pronoun usage. I also thought that I was supposed to restrict my research to mandatory authority, but was wrong. Pathern not mad, just disappointed.

I don't have problems with like bigger picture legal analysis/argument structure in the memo, but I have a bunch of attention to detail fails. In retrospect, I didn't take the memo as seriously as I should have because I figured since it's not going to a client, it's not that important.

This is the first actual feedback I've had on a research memo so I'll just fix it in the future, but yeah idk it seems like the response to the stuff I've done is a consistent .

Re: work product, I've had internal research memos, drafting a trial outline (for a slam dunk case), draft a low-important demand letter, and gonna draft a very low-importance patent application in the next couple days. Case summary too. I have yet to have proofread assignments or do clerical stuff. I guess that's one of the benefits of small-biglaw? (150-200 attorneys). I get more stuff to do. I mean all my final work product is either inconsequential or will be heavily edited, but it's a useful exercise I suppose.

Are you working in the IP division or at a IP boutique? Do you have a science background? If no to all of these, make sure you're clear the whole "drafting a patent app" thing wasn't a misunderstanding. (FYI it takes experienced IP practitioners "a couple of days" to draft an application.)

[Glasseyes]

W/r/t informal tone and internal memo, at least at my firm, there's a pretty distinct difference between an "internal memo" and an "informal memo". The internal memo is still written formally: no "we", yes to proper citations, question presented, brief answer, all that jazz. But when someone says "just give me an informal memo" they mean what you did, basically. Sometimes those requests come for bullet point memos, emails eith cases and short summaries—there's a wide range of formality here, and it def depends on who's asking. My favorite are what I call "oral history" memos, which are kinda structured like formal memos, but instead of doing much analysis, it's just a collection of block quotes from sources on point.

As mentioned above, if there's any confusion about expectations, try to ask more questions in advance, go back and ask more questions if you're still confused, or hit up jr's who work with the pathern—they usually have the best advice, if they don't hate you blindly.