Opinions please - am I going to be let go? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 2d lit associate at a regional Biglawl firm. T20 school, above median, not a spectacular resume and lucky to have my job.

The firm I'm at is leanly staffed. Partners talk, obviously, and I'm afraid my reputation is at risk.

I've been working primarily for 4 to 5 partners. Two of those partners - let's call them Partner A and B - are intense, tough, and generally difficult graders. They are the no-bullshit type that doesn't want to hear anything else but how you'll fix the mistake you made. I really respect their style, but it takes getting used to and can be very difficult to gauge whether the mistake you just made will end your employment.

It just so happens that I've had some work product issues with these two partners. With Partner A, I fixed the mistakes early on. They were primarily typo errors, but when it became a pattern, it became an issue. I worked hard to fix my relationship with Parter A, and believe I've somewhat gained the trust back by improving my work product. Not quite there b/c I continue to make mistakes from time to time, but it's improving.

With Partner B, who is a senior equity partner, I've had an up-and-down relationship. Two months ago, I completed an assignment that he described as "excellent." After that, I made two mistakes that demonstrate I lack competency and/or am sloppy. The first occurred when I suggested a hearing date that was obviously in violation of the civil rules. He brought this to my attention and told me it worried him that I didn't have a strong grasp of those rules. I read them, and re-read them, to develop a better understanding.

Well, this week I fucked up an order for a motion I drafted. I failed to notice that the paralegal that drafted the order included broad language that seemingly made the judgment final against two parties, when in fact it would be final only against one of them. Partner B walks into my office before the hearing and informs me of this mistake. I take full responsibility. He ends it with, "We've already talked about these mistakes once, and I'm not here to hold your hand. I'm just not sure what to do with you."

This freaked me out. Am I gone? On the way? Over-reacting? My concern is that I've ruined my reputation, and these mistakes are not ones I should be making.

The mistakes I make are really a lack of attention to detail. Any suggestions on how to fix?

[h2go]

The mistakes I make are really a lack of attention to detail. Any suggestions on how to fix?

I don't know what to tell you besides pay more attention. Partners don''t care about cutting time if you turn in solid work product, so spend the time to get it right. If you are making a lot of the same types of errors, make a check list of your common mistakes and go through the list before you turn anything in.

[Anonymous User]

This freaked me out. Am I gone? On the way?

honestly, yes

[jimmythecatdied6]

Maybe you should stop asking paralegals to draft your work product...

[Anonymous User]

The same thing happened to me. I was let go just before year 2. Happiest day of my life. Those two partners said like giant dweebs. Partners forget what it is like to be a junior. It takes around 2-3 years before you even feel comfortable.

[Tls2016]

Dude: why is your work product so terrible? Are you expecting that the partners will find and fix your errors? Are you rushing through to meet unrealistic deadlines? Are you not understanding the assignment? Are you nervous?

It's difficult to help you fix your work product issue when the cause isn't clear.

Edit: maybe you just aren't a detail oriented person. I think that is a learnable skill.

[Danger Zone]

Dude: why is your work product so terrible? Are you expecting that the partners will find and fix your errors? Are you rushing through to meet unrealistic deadlines? Are you not understanding the assignment? Are you nervous?

It's difficult to help you fix your work product issue when the cause isn't clear.

Don't be a dick. Juniors make mistakes.

[Tls2016]

Dude: why is your work product so terrible? Are you expecting that the partners will find and fix your errors? Are you rushing through to meet unrealistic deadlines? Are you not understanding the assignment? Are you nervous?

It's difficult to help you fix your work product issue when the cause isn't clear.

Don't be a dick. Juniors make mistakes.

The pattern of typos I don't understand as mistakes juniors make. I probably can't be helpful because I don't understand the problem. The rules error sounds like a substantive thing that is easy to correct. I wouldn't hold that mistake against OP.

You are right, I shouldn't have been so harsh.
Hope everything works out for you OP. The only solid advice I have for you is don't become anxiety ridden and scared. Try to keep confidence in yourself. Just keep doing your best and improving.

Edit: maybe the problem is that OP doesn't see something as a typo that someone else has to find and fix as that big of an issue? I've known associates who don't understand that errors like typos matter when they have the substance of the task correct.

[Lincoln]

Those partner comments--more so than the mistakes--sound a bit worrying, so I don't blame you for being concerned, even if nothing you did would ever be grounds for getting fired at my firm (which is described as "cut-throat" and "intense").

First, I wouldn't let the mistakes per se get to you. Sure, they shouldn't happen, but they always do--God knows I've made plenty of mistakes like this and worse--and it takes time to get good at this. This is why you have several people look at this stuff before it's filed. In fact, as long as there's time, we would usually have a mid-level or senior associate look over something like this before it goes to the partner, even if the partner asked for it directly, just to avoid partners getting up a junior associate's ass about minor shit like this.

Second, try to develop a system to make sure you are sending the best possible product up the ladder. When you are reviewing work product drafted by a junior (or a paralegal), get in the habit of questioning everything. Why is this here? What does this mean? What precedent did this come from? When you are drafting, see if you can have a friend at work review it just for a sanity check. And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

[skri65]

And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

In situations where it's just you and a partner, who do you have check your work? Paralegals?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe you should stop asking paralegals to draft your work product...

I realize this, but for efficiency and time management, I asked the paralegal to draft the order. Of course, I took ownership of the order because I signed off and sent it up the latter. While it's easy to rely on paralegals to do ministerial things, they are by and large not very helpful. Lesson learned to not rely on them in a hard way.

[Anonymous User]

The same thing happened to me. I was let go just before year 2. Happiest day of my life. Those two partners said like giant dweebs. Partners forget what it is like to be a junior. It takes around 2-3 years before you even feel comfortable.

Did you have a pulse on things and were you able to predict? Gut feeling is I'm skating on such thin ice right now that another mistake, and rest assured one will happen, will sink me. Not having a negative attitude, but that's simply reality.

If so, did you begin to network beforehand? Did you land on your feet?

[Dessert Fox]

And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

In situations where it's just you and a partner, who do you have check your work? Paralegals?

It's really not that hard to check your own work.

[Anonymous User]

Dude: why is your work product so terrible? Are you expecting that the partners will find and fix your errors? Are you rushing through to meet unrealistic deadlines? Are you not understanding the assignment? Are you nervous?

It's difficult to help you fix your work product issue when the cause isn't clear.

Don't be a dick. Juniors make mistakes.

The pattern of typos I don't understand as mistakes juniors make. I probably can't be helpful because I don't understand the problem. The rules error sounds like a substantive thing that is easy to correct. I wouldn't hold that mistake against OP.

You are right, I shouldn't have been so harsh.
Hope everything works out for you OP. The only solid advice I have for you is don't become anxiety ridden and scared. Try to keep confidence in yourself. Just keep doing your best and improving.

Edit: maybe the problem is that OP doesn't see something as a typo that someone else has to find and fix as that big of an issue? I've known associates who don't understand that errors like typos matter when they have the substance of the task correct.

I completely agree with you. We're paid too much money to make typos, not know the rules, etc. I've developed a checklist and will hope it doesn't happen again. While substance matters, so does form. I see both issues (substance and typos) to present the same level of concern. Substantive issues are probably a bigger issue b/c they're harder to fix, but form issues like typos show sloppiness, lack of attention to detail, etc.

I appreciate the feedback. It's hard to not become anxious, though. Similar to going up to the plate in baseball knowing you're going to strike out, 9/10 you'll strike out. That's how I feel and it sucks.

[Anonymous User]

Those partner comments--more so than the mistakes--sound a bit worrying, so I don't blame you for being concerned, even if nothing you did would ever be grounds for getting fired at my firm (which is described as "cut-throat" and "intense").

First, I wouldn't let the mistakes per se get to you. Sure, they shouldn't happen, but they always do--God knows I've made plenty of mistakes like this and worse--and it takes time to get good at this. This is why you have several people look at this stuff before it's filed. In fact, as long as there's time, we would usually have a mid-level or senior associate look over something like this before it goes to the partner, even if the partner asked for it directly, just to avoid partners getting up a junior associate's ass about minor shit like this.

Second, try to develop a system to make sure you are sending the best possible product up the ladder. When you are reviewing work product drafted by a junior (or a paralegal), get in the habit of questioning everything. Why is this here? What does this mean? What precedent did this come from? When you are drafting, see if you can have a friend at work review it just for a sanity check. And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

Great advice and I appreciate the feedback, especially the second point. Thanks again.

[skri65]

And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

In situations where it's just you and a partner, who do you have check your work? Paralegals?

It's really not that hard to check your own work.

I agree, which is why I was trying to clarify the comment I was quoting.

[Lincoln]

And with respect to typos, always, and I mean ALWAYS, have someone else proofread before sending it up the chain.

In situations where it's just you and a partner, who do you have check your work? Paralegals?

It's really not that hard to check your own work.

In my experience, everyone will miss typos in their own work. I usually ask my secretary to proofread. We also have a department that does proofreading, which is what I use for longer documents.

[Tls2016]

OP:if your instincts are telling you that you are going to be fired, start getting your resume together. Start looking around a little.

You know your firm and the people better than the posters on this forum.

[lurklaw]

OP:if your instincts are telling you that you are going to be fired, start getting your resume together. Start looking around a little.

You know your firm and the people better than the posters on this forum.

Yeah, this.

Also, take more stims. Should easily fix the attention to detail issues.

[homestyle28]

Frankly it sounds like you have shitty partners to work for. 99% of all typos don't matter in litigation. Sure it'd be great to know the FRCP inside and out, but that comes from experience and actually applying them, which is something as a 2nd year you haven't had much of a chance to do yet.

None of this will help you keep your job though. If I were you I'd a) try to work for less shitty partners at your firm or b) contact some headhunters asap.

[Anonymous User]

This is ultimately a determination that depends in a number of firm specific factors (e.g. current and future work flow) and personal ones (whether any partner is willing to stick up for you and is also capable of feeding you hours). Generally speaking at my firm once you start hearing about your mistakes, it's time to start polishing the resume. Not because you're the only one making mistakes, but because the partners have decided your time is up and they want to start laying the groundwork for giving you the boot. How they arrive at that decision is a mix of your own work product, the amount of business the firm has, luck/randomness, and pretty much everything else under the sun.

Partner B's passive aggressive histrionics are all too familiar in the biglaw setting and it wouldn't surprise me if he sinks you, though there's only so much I can glean from the brief description you've given. All it takes is one over-reactor to totally trash you which, while unfortunate, is the reality in biglaw. At the very least I would lay the groundwork for a search (resume, transcript, reaching out to recruiters, making sure interview attire is in order) so in the event you get a drop-dead date you don't need to waste any time doing prep work.

[lawschoolftw]

OP, while you should endeavor to make less "silly" mistakes, I think some of the feedback in this thread has been harsh. I don't have much to add, other than to say don't kill yourself for these mistakes. We've all drafted something wrong and sent something to a partner/client with a typo in it. It's the nature of being a junior. Good luck moving forward.

[Anonymous User]

I had a similar situation with a partner who was just impossible to please (in conjunction with me making some careless errors). The partner made very similar comments to me as the ones you are hearing. Past a certain point he just point-blank removed me from the case I had been working so hard on. Though he did offer me the professional courtesy of saying that he wouldn't talk to anyone about it or say anything negative about me to anyone, and that I was free to go find work elsewhere (part of this was because he genuinely liked me as a person and, work aside, we had a good relationship). Of course, thats easier said than done, but its certainly better than doing it with bad word-of-mouth trailing you everywhere.

Ended up leaving the firm myself not long after so it didn't really matter in the end.

[Anonymous User]

When partners are difficult during the project and give you a talking to, but much nicer after, does it mean you were graded badly? I think that's probably how I'd behave if I were a partner, and was going to grade someone badly.

[Catsinthebag]

OP, question: the substantive mistake. Did a) you not even know the paralegal made the mistake or did b) you think what was written was correct, or c) did you think what was written might be wrong but weren't sure. Sorry if you said this somewhere but I didn't see it.

If your answer is a) then I can see why he'd be upset.