Did you go into BigLaw thinking it would be better for you? Forum

[MKC]

I only mentioned Red Lobster as a kind of big mac index.

But you really didn't. You mentioned the Red Lobster in Times Square, which is way more expensive than any other even in NYC.

That was a concrete example she mentioned to me that I was familiar with. She was down there one day and wanted some cheddar bay biscuits. After seeing the prices, she decided against it.

She also used to finance visits home by smuggling cigarettes in her luggage. $3/pack in missouri vs $12/pack in NYC will cover a flight pretty quick.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I've had friends from NYC visit me in the midwest and stock up on things like shampoo and deodorant, because they were way less expensive.

Sounds like trolling just bc real New Yorkers don't have space to "stock up" on things like that. Perhaps another confused Midwesterner in a 1400 sq ft apartment!

Okay, when I say "stock up" it was, like, buy 2 bottles. But that was what they told me.

You should really tell your friends about amazon prime.

The embarrassing thing is that now that I think about it, this was probably before Amazon Prime was a thing.

[biglawbro]

Sort of.

I thought the firm I picked was a "lifestyle" firm. It turns out that "lifestyle" was a marketing ploy but select people were allowed to take advantage of the firm's lifestyle policies. Those people were trotted out at summer events and they gushed about how they were always home at 6pm and hadn't ever worked through a weekend. I learned that wasn't the case for first year associates about a week into my employment when I was asked to stay the over the weekend and bill 30+ hours. That continued for about a year. I ended up lateraling with a couple other lawyers to another big firm that had a terrible reputation for being hard on hours. Except I bill less hours here than at my previous firm.

The best thing I ever did was lateral with more senior attorneys. They treat me better than anyone at our new firm and they are generally invested in keeping me steadily busy and happy. Granted we have a niche practice group so they probably have more autonomy to run things how they see fit but I am pretty sure I observed similar favoritism at my last firm among other lateral groups.

[v5junior]

This is what I don't understand, the mentality that being in NYC, making 160k, is awesome because you can be thrifty and whatnot. If you work as much as biglaw lawyers do, I would really want to go crazy, not be thrifty.

The problem with this oh-so-common response is that being "thrifty" in NYC is all relative. You're living in one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The operative comparison is your QOL living in KS vs your QOL living in MFH, not your QOL in MFH vs others in MFH. You don't have to worry about stumbling into a Jean-Georges if you're in middle of nowhere KS. There is plenty of good food at a reasonable price in MFH, you just have to make a little effort to avoid stumbling into a Michelin star restaurant or a price gouging tourist trap. Maybe you find that effort "demeaning" once you're making a biglaw salary, but personally, I prefer making that effort to dealing with shitty suburban cuisine and Trump supporters.

And on that note, I am going to stop derailing this thread with another NYC vs w/e debate.

[SplitMyPants]

Sort of.

I thought the firm I picked was a "lifestyle" firm. It turns out that "lifestyle" was a marketing ploy but select people were allowed to take advantage of the firm's lifestyle policies. Those people were trotted out at summer events and they gushed about how they were always home at 6pm and hadn't ever worked through a weekend. I learned that wasn't the case for first year associates about a week into my employment when I was asked to stay the over the weekend and bill 30+ hours. That continued for about a year. I ended up lateraling with a couple other lawyers to another big firm that had a terrible reputation for being hard on hours. Except I bill less hours here than at my previous firm.

The best thing I ever did was lateral with more senior attorneys. They treat me better than anyone at our new firm and they are generally invested in keeping me steadily busy and happy. Granted we have a niche practice group so they probably have more autonomy to run things how they see fit but I am pretty sure I observed similar favoritism at my last firm among other lateral groups.

Stop derailing the derailment.

[TheZoid]

Also, considering a lot of biglaw attorneys live in places like NYC, DC, etc., the money really isn't that great. Making 160k in NYC is like making 60k in flyover....except you have to work a lot more in NYC.

I don't get people who think biglaw pays a lot in places like NYC/DC, unless they grew up in a trailer park or something.

I have a question about this, since I see it posted a lot. Is this actually accurate? Trying to decide where I want to go after graduation, so this matters to me. The last number is a very rough estimate of insurance, bills, car maintenance, gas, phone, netflix, spotify, etc.

Stl:

Salary 125k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 34.7k state and federal income taxes
- 15.6k rent
- 12k

= 52.7k

Stl:

Salary 60k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 10.4k state and federal income taxes
- 10k rent
- 8k

= 21.6k

NYC:

Salary 160k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 47.4k state and federal income taxes
- 40k rent
- 10k (no car insurance, gas, or maintenance costs)

= 52.6k

I don't know what the bonus figures look like, but I'm pretty sure NYC bonuses are larger than Stl bonuses.

I'm gonna assume a 30k/year apartment is about the same as a 10k/year apartment in st louis. Pretty sure you can still grocery shop and cook for yourself right at around the same price right? Are vegetables and meats and shit literally double price in NYC? Plus don't firms pay for Seamless if you stay late? I just don't see how ~52.6k take home is as de minimus as people make it seem, but I haven't lived in NYC. Raises in NYC I heard are in larger increments than other areas as well. If it's that expensive to buy a TV in NYC, why not just order off Amazon?

I'm not trying to say that biglaw is great and dandy or whatever, but I'm curious where this "lol ur still poor with 160k in nyc" is coming from? Are there costs I'm just not accounting for?

While I think the 50k in flyover is like 160k in NYC argument is a little overblown, you're way off on the taxes. On your numbers you'd be taking home over 110k- it's more like 95.

[krads153]

This is what I don't understand, the mentality that being in NYC, making 160k, is awesome because you can be thrifty and whatnot. If you work as much as biglaw lawyers do, I would really want to go crazy, not be thrifty.

The problem with this oh-so-common response is that being "thrifty" in NYC is all relative. You're living in one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The operative comparison is your QOL living in KS vs your QOL living in MFH, not your QOL in MFH vs others in MFH. You don't have to worry about stumbling into a Jean-Georges if you're in middle of nowhere KS. There is plenty of good food at a reasonable price in MFH, you just have to make a little effort to avoid stumbling into a Michelin star restaurant or a price gouging tourist trap. Maybe you find that effort "demeaning" once you're making a biglaw salary, but personally, I prefer making that effort to dealing with shitty suburban cuisine and Trump supporters.

And on that note, I am going to stop derailing this thread with another NYC vs w/e debate.

Literally had to google this place and I've lived in NYC for awhile...

I'm from Northern California - the food is a lot better there and cheaper on average - I guess Northern California isn't as "cool" as NYC though and doesn't have as many fancy Michelin restaurants...but NYC food is IMO overrated and overpriced. ALso, the disdain with which you talk about "Kansas" is kind of hilarious - there are lots of nice places to live in flyover. I've never lived in Kansas, but I have lived in most regions (everywhere except the South) and some of my favorite places to live permanently are in suburban flyover.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

[krads153]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

I'm a huge fan of Asian/Indian/ethnic food though - so California easily wins hands down over NYC for that. For some reason the ethnic, hole in the wall places in NYC are just subpar quality-wise and often unsanitary. I've gotten food poisoning more times in NYC in a few years than I did my entire life combined prior.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

I'm a huge fan of Asian/Indian/ethnic food though - so California easily wins hands down over NYC for that

I could see that.

TBH the biggest problem for me is everything closing by 10 pm. Like at least let me get drunk first so that I'll think the food is good.

[bruinfan10]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

jfc dude sf and napa are universally recognized food meccas. i hate tons of stuff about norcal, but i'd never dump on the cuisine. troll or nah?

[Tiago Splitter]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

jfc dude sf and napa are universally recognized food meccas. troll or nah?

1/3 troll, 1/3 stuck in sv, 1/3 haven't found the spots yet.

[bruinfan10]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

jfc dude sf and napa are universally recognized food meccas. troll or nah?

1/3 troll, 1/3 stuck in sv, 1/3 haven't found the spots yet.

i'm not a big fan of the sv food scene, grew up there. although i hear san jo and santa clara have some decent ramen.

[ballouttacontrol]

South bay sucks in general and really isn't part of the bay area

[Tiago Splitter]

South bay sucks in general and really isn't part of the bay area

by south bay do you mean everything south of san francisco?

[bruinfan10]

South bay sucks in general and really isn't part of the bay area

by south bay do you mean everything south of san francisco?

south bay is pretty much san jose, as opposed to the peninsula, east bay, and north bay. east bay is aight around berkeley/albany, i think the rest of it is suburby and murdery hell. north bay has some chill hippies and solid oysters, but it's pretty boring overall imho. san jose/silicon valley/south bay is a techy cultural wasteland.

[Lexaholik]

I think Northern California food is pure shit, but I'll admit it took me a while to find places I liked in NYC.

I'm a huge fan of Asian/Indian/ethnic food though - so California easily wins hands down over NYC for that

I could see that.

TBH the biggest problem for me is everything closing by 10 pm. Like at least let me get drunk first so that I'll think the food is good.

You just have to know the right places to go. As a NYC to Bay Area transplant my original impression was also that the food here is garbage. But there are ethnic enclaves you need to explore. Some examples:

- Korean food in this mini K-town block in Oakland
- Taiwanese food in Fremont
- Cantonese/HK Dim Sum in SF Chinatown and near Richmond
- Japanese/Ramen in San Mateo

My knowledge is pretty East Asian based but that's just my personal preference.

As to closing at 10 PM yes that's really annoying but once you get to a certain age (like me) you learn to day drink so you avoid hangovers the next day, and the plus side is your drunk eating happens at 7-8 PM.

[87mm]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

[Danger Zone]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

Oh, I was you once. How I long for that life again.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

Oh, I was you once. How I long for that life again.

That bad? Does the pay help at least?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

IP at places like a Quinn or Kirkland or Irell are going to be just as brutal as any other biglaw practice. IP boutiques might be a bit different (it's out of my area of substantial knowledge), but they aren't really the v-whatever firms that most people talk about when talking about "biglaw."

[Danger Zone]

I love my job... twice a month, for about an hour. Then I hate it. Does that answer the money question?

Someone on here explained it best when they said that satisfaction and dissatisfaction are not part of the same sliding scale. I have pretty good satisfaction right now because of the money and the weird status people attribute to lawyers, but extremely high dissatisfaction for pretty much every other part of my job (the people, the hours, the unpredictability, the work itself).

[Anonymous User]

I love my job... twice a month, for about an hour. Then I hate it. Does that answer the money question?

Someone on here explained it best when they said that satisfaction and dissatisfaction are not part of the same sliding scale. I have pretty good satisfaction right now because of the money and the weird status people attribute to lawyers, but extremely high dissatisfaction for pretty much every other part of my job (the people, the hours, the unpredictability, the work itself).

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

IP at places like a Quinn or Kirkland or Irell are going to be just as brutal as any other biglaw practice. IP boutiques might be a bit different (it's out of my area of substantial knowledge), but they aren't really the v-whatever firms that most people talk about when talking about "biglaw."

Thanks for the input. Good to know for sure. I'll have to see how I feel about things once I finish 1L... and see if I am even above median.

[totesTheGoat]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

Go home! Seriously, if you're not productive, go home! You're just wasting your time and the company's resources sitting there and doing nothing. If you're at a company that expects "face time," you need to go to your manager and tell them to give you more work. If you are consistently not given work, you're a likely candidate the next time layoffs come around.

Go start a thread in the Ask a Student/Graduate forum to ask about the difference between IP biglaw and tech. There are plenty of us who would respond, but I don't want to derail this thread.

[Danger Zone]

Anyone know if IP biglaw is any different? I keep hearing how IP isnt as bad and it is much easier to get into (if you're patent bar eligible).

0L here... I'm considering living a life of pain and misery. Have a super relaxed job with great benefits now and I get incredibly bored. Figured more stress and higher pay would be nice changes. Half my free time is spent highlighting desktop icons

Go home! Seriously, if you're not productive, go home! You're just wasting your time and the company's resources sitting there and doing nothing. If you're at a company that expects "face time," you need to go to your manager and tell them to give you more work. If you are consistently not given work, you're a likely candidate the next time layoffs come around.

Go start a thread in the Ask a Student/Graduate forum to ask about the difference between IP biglaw and tech. There are plenty of us who would respond, but I don't want to derail this thread.

This is terrible advice for most non-law corporate jobs. I hardly did anything in my pre-law gig and was considered a rockstar by the managers because, when I did do things, I did them faster and better than people twenty years my senior.