1L Minority SA Multiple Dings Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm in a large southern market, participated in local minority program. Top 5-10% of class, 1/4 Hispanic. I did several mock interviews and I am very comfortable speaking with others, etc. I had about 10 interviews for biglaw firms, and I have almost dinged at every single place. Each interview was basically set up like a 'callback' (e.g. meet with several attorneys, lunch, etc. 3 - 4 hour process). For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the hell is going on and why I have basically failed. Is it because I'm only 1/4 Hispanic and I'm not 'Hispanic' enough? Any advice, or criticism, or maybe some things I need to do to improve my chances for 2l OCI would be appreciated. Thank you.

[zot1]

No one can really give you meaningful feedback without specific details of your interview.

To begin with there are a lot of 1Ls looking for SAs and only a few spots available. You're also likely not the only minority applicant to these firms. So it could be some of this.

But also it could be some of your answers or your demeanor. But again, we wouldn't know without specific details.

[Anonymous User]

No one can really give you meaningful feedback without specific details of your interview.

To begin with there are a lot of 1Ls looking for SAs and only a few spots available. You're also likely not the only minority applicant to these firms. So it could be some of this.

But also it could be some of your answers or your demeanor. But again, we wouldn't know without specific details.

I understand. I mean, I went through several mock interviews, cleaned up my kinks that were annoying. All the questions and answers became the same. So it's very unlikely it's my interviewing, and even my CDO counselor was caught off guard about my lack of success. Further, one of my friends at the firm told me that that the person who got the position was AA female, and was top 30%. It's rather suspicious/frustrating, and completely been a drag on me. But I'm still happy to have gone through this experience to know what firms to bid on for OCI this summer. Thanks for your response.

[Anonymous User]

rank of school?

[Anonymous User]

rank of school?

highest rank out of the 4 in the area. and its tier1. other schools are t2/t3.

i was only competing with other local law schools.

[Poldy]

rank of school?

highest rank out of the 4 in the area. and its tier1. other schools are t2/t3.

i was only competing with other local law schools.

You don't know that. Even most smaller firms that I've interviewed with have also been interviewing T14 students, even though there are like 8 LS in the state.

[Nekrowizard]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a t1 that's the only school in a major market. I didn't apply to any minority SA positions because i'm slightly below median, i'm 100% minority, did i make a mistake or was it unlikely that i would have gotten anything

[Anonymous User]

rank of school?

highest rank out of the 4 in the area. and its tier1. other schools are t2/t3.

i was only competing with other local law schools.

You don't know that. Even most smaller firms that I've interviewed with have also been interviewing T14 students, even though there are like 8 LS in the state.

yes i do know that, because its a LOCAL minority program. they can only recruit from that pool of candidates.

[Mullens]

They either didn't think you were diverse enough or you don't interview nearly as well as you think. You can only control one of those things so work on your interview skills before 2L OCI. 1L SA positions are hard to get so don't worry too much about not getting one.

[Anonymous User]

They either didn't think you were diverse enough or you don't interview nearly as well as you think. You can only control one of those things so work on your interview skills before 2L OCI. 1L SA positions are hard to get so don't worry too much about not getting one.

you're entirely right, it could be my interviewing skills. but i did a follow up mock interview with an alternative counselors at my schools CDO (to avoid potential bias with my assigned counselor) -- they said the only thing I stumbled on was not having your resume on hand. so i'm really suspicious about my dings and its frustrating if my intuition is correct.

[Anonymous User]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

See that's my concern. Except, I'm Hispanic in every sense. I've always identified as Hispanic and so it's very frustrating that (if this is the reason I'm being dinged) that I'm not "Hispanic enough".

[Nekrowizard]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

See that's my concern. Except, I'm Hispanic in every sense. I've always identified as Hispanic and so it's very frustrating that (if this is the reason I'm being dinged) that I'm not "Hispanic enough".

I don't know what you could do about it, unfortunately. Do you play it up? Like are you a member of some sort of Hispanic groups? Do you engage in lots of Hispanic-American activities? If so, you should try to slip those into your resume somewhere and talk about them whenever the opportunity arises.

[Anonymous User]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

See that's my concern. Except, I'm Hispanic in every sense. I've always identified as Hispanic and so it's very frustrating that (if this is the reason I'm being dinged) that I'm not "Hispanic enough".

I don't know what you could do about it, unfortunately. Do you play it up? Like are you a member of some sort of Hispanic groups? Do you engage in lots of Hispanic-American activities? If so, you should try to slip those into your resume somewhere and talk about them whenever the opportunity arises.

Yes, I am a member of the school's Hispanic association and local Hispanic Bar Association. My personal statement (which was about diversity and required for this program) was all about it. The whole point of the program is about encouraging diversity/inclusion, but because I may not "look" the part, that means to some employers I'm not diverse? Even though I'm by all means Hispanic? It's very frustrating and I feel like I'm being excluded when the whole point of diversity is to be inclusive of others.

[Mullens]

They either didn't think you were diverse enough or you don't interview nearly as well as you think. You can only control one of those things so work on your interview skills before 2L OCI. 1L SA positions are hard to get so don't worry too much about not getting one.

you're entirely right, it could be my interviewing skills. but i did a follow up mock interview with an alternative counselors at my schools CDO (to avoid potential bias with my assigned counselor) -- they said the only thing I stumbled on was not having your resume on hand. so i'm really suspicious about my dings and its frustrating if my intuition is correct.

There's a huge gap between not struggling in an interview and being a great interviewer. This is something I struggled with and doing more callbacks and practicing helped me really improve. Employers want to hire people they like and that they could imagine working with during late nights and stressful times. The less your interview focuses on your resume and the more time that is spent just shooting the shit about the interests on your resume, the better. Smile and be as personable as possible. Beyond that, you really just need to have good, thoughtful questions and well-thought answers to why you want to work there and the other typical interview questions. Again, the more conversational the interview, the better.

[Mullens]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

See that's my concern. Except, I'm Hispanic in every sense. I've always identified as Hispanic and so it's very frustrating that (if this is the reason I'm being dinged) that I'm not "Hispanic enough".

I don't know what you could do about it, unfortunately. Do you play it up? Like are you a member of some sort of Hispanic groups? Do you engage in lots of Hispanic-American activities? If so, you should try to slip those into your resume somewhere and talk about them whenever the opportunity arises.

Yes, I am a member of the school's Hispanic association and local Hispanic Bar Association. My personal statement (which was about diversity and required for this program) was all about it. The whole point of the program is about encouraging diversity/inclusion, but because I may not "look" the part, that means to some employers I'm not diverse? Even though I'm by all means Hispanic? It's very frustrating and I feel like I'm being excluded when the whole point of diversity is to be inclusive of others.

I wouldn't make this assumption because (1) it's baseless and (2) there's nothing you can do to control how you're perceived. There's not point stressing over things you can't control. Hiring is idiosyncratic and it can come down to connecting with whoever is on your interview schedule or getting dinged because someone who interviewed you is having a bad day. Focus on what you can control.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It could just be that other people interviewed better than you did. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, they just might have been that tiny bit better. Since it sounds like these places were hiring only one person, that's not a lot of openings. It's going to come down to a lot of subjective factors. Maybe the hiring partner was from the local T4 and likes to hire from their own school. Maybe they were looking to increase the number of women at the firm. Maybe someone who got the gig had connections. Maybe they have a fair number of Hispanics at the firm already but no AAs. This is unfortunately just how jobs work - it could be a whole lot of things entirely out of your control.

[Nekrowizard]

Sounds like you've done all you can on the diversity front short of working on your tan. All you can do is improve your interviews, keep your grades up, and not stress out about it too much.

[zot1]

CDO interview feedback isn't bullet proof either. After all, interviewers are individuals, and as such, they look for different things.

My CDO has always said I'm a good interviewer, but they were wrong. I pretty much suck at it.

But also all interviews are different. No matter how much you prepare for interviews, the real interview will at the very least have one different question and maybe that question throws off the interviewers the wrong way.

[NoChainz]

I really don't know many major market diversity programs that only hire from local schools. Why would the firm limit itself? I'm diverse and was offered a position through a mid-major cities diversity program that only interviewed local schools despite going to an out-of-state T14. Also are you K-JD?

[Anonymous User]

Honestly, you're probably just not interviewing as well as the other candidates are. Also, these are highly competitive spots and usually there's only one spot with multiple impressive kids coming in for it. The CBs I thought I knocked out of the park this past month were the places I got dinged from, so I think its hard to get a read on these 1L Diversity SAs. Also, in my opinion, an AA female is going to provide a hell of a lot more diversity/perspective than a person who is a quarter Hispanic who has likely grown up far more privileged (not saying this is the case for you). However, since the purpose of the position is to increase diversity, I don't think it is fair for you to be frustrated with them hiring an AA female because she has lower grades, but again, just my opinion. These are diversity SAs and by nature are unicorn jobs, you're going to kill it at OCI, just relax.

[zot1]

FWIW (which is nothing), I got beat out for a diversity SA by a female AA. Best thing ever happened to me.

[Anonymous User]

I think you should focus on your interview skills. This is a major thing in biglaw hiring. It doesn't matter that you think you're good. You're not good enough, clearly. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm really trying to help you.

I'm a non-urm minority. When I was a 1L, I was in top 15% of my class after first semester at a t20, the best school in the market (secondary). I applied to a bunch of diversity sa, got at least 10 interviews. Got two offers. Then 2L I transferred to one of HYS. 24 screeners at EIP, two callbacks, one of the callbacks was at a historically 100% callback->offer rate firm. No offers.

Point is, after almost striking out during 1L I thought I might have bad interview skills, but decided not to worry about it. It cost me huge at EIP. Do something about it while you still can. During EIP I did a mock interview, and the cso person said I wasn't bad, had me fix a couple answers. After EIP, again did a mock interview, cso said not bad, gave me suggestions on how to improve. Point is, cso isn't great at telling you you're bad, or they're not great at telling whether you're bad.

Fix it now. Don't sulk. Doesn't get you anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

CDO's job is to help the bottom 10% reach median, not to help the median interviewer reach top 10%. If they don't point anything out, that just means you were par for the course.

You want your interviews to trend to your interests (that's a good thing). Like others have said, you want to come off as a guy that they want to work late in the office with. One thing to keep in mind though is that you want a CONVERSATION, but that doesn't mean that you should be happy to blabber on about yourself for 30 minutes. While on the its face, the interview is about you, the interviewer will enjoy the interview more (and consequently rate you higher) if you engage them as well.