Anyone the sole SA for his or her office this summer? Forum

[NotoriousBIGlawlz]

Hello, TLS.

Long time lurker, first post ever. I'm a T20 2L who secured a SA position with a small regional office in the west coast of a large V50 firm.

I've been keeping up with the legal news and it seems offer rates for full time associates has been one of the highest since around the Great Recession era. Now it's close to 95% full time offer rates per NALP. My firm traditionally hovered around that.

I just had a few questions:
1. Assuming I do a satisfactory job (e.g. Working my ass off) am I almost guaranteed the full time offer? After all, if they don't hire me, they are delayed by one whole year is a busy office that needs manpower asap. I'm just a bit worried about my 1st sem grades.
2. I've been going thru incredible family problems, like being caught in the middle of my parents' divorce, and I performed rather poorly my first semester of 2L. Just north of a 3.0.
3. My firm requests official transcripts sent to the recruiting coordinator in a different state.
4. I'm working my ass off this sem to raise my gpa but I would like to hear from anyone who was also the only SA.

Does being the only SA have different perks leading to job security? How was your experience overall? I know it's firm dependent.

Anyway, thanks y'all!

[Anonymous User]

Hello, TLS.

Long time lurker, first post ever. I'm a T20 2L who secured a SA position with a small regional office in the west coast of a large V50 firm.

I've been keeping up with the legal news and it seems offer rates for full time associates has been one of the highest since around the Great Recession era. Now it's close to 95% full time offer rates per NALP. My firm traditionally hovered around that.

I just had a few questions:
1. Assuming I do a satisfactory job (e.g. Working my ass off) am I almost guaranteed the full time offer? After all, if they don't hire me, they are delayed by one whole year is a busy office that needs manpower asap. I'm just a bit worried about my 1st sem grades.
2. I've been going thru incredible family problems, like being caught in the middle of my parents' divorce, and I performed rather poorly my first semester of 2L. Just north of a 3.0.
3. My firm requests official transcripts sent to the recruiting coordinator in a different state.
4. I'm working my ass off this sem to raise my gpa but I would like to hear from anyone who was also the only SA.

Does being the only SA have different perks leading to job security? How was your experience overall? I know it's firm dependent.

Anyway, thanks y'all!

Couple of thoughts from someone who was one of three SAs. First, there is no way anyone can be sure that you will get an offer based on your firm/class size. For one thing, the firm could care less about losing a class year (all one of you) and you are not the solution for a busy office. It will be more than 18 months before you are a permanent associate at the firm and a few more months before you are really contributing. Who knows what the market will be like then? Every firm and practice groups has its ups and downs and you could end up in the wrong firm at the wrong time and be out of luck.

Second, the no-offer risk could be higher for a one-person class. With large classes you just have to avoid doing anything to make yourself stand out in a bad way. With one person, you are going to be front and center the whole time. You will get all of the work opportunities, so everyone will evaluate your candidacy. If you have some personality quirk, your family problems come up again at the wrong time or are just not that quick on the uptake for the kind of work you're doing, you could find yourself on the outside looking in.

Therefore, you need to have the attitude that you are fighting for a job. All three summer associates at my firm were told that there was a presumption we would get an offer. The other two associates believed recruiting and enjoyed the summer. I worked my tail off and got the only offer of the class. The lesson is that from today onward you need to be convinced that you are trying to earn a permanent job every day.

That begins with focusing on your grades. Depending on how your firm times offers, you can possibly apply to other firms before you actually find out if you get an offer (easier to say you don't know than to say you were no-offered). I ended up at a much better firm after graduation before I even received an offer from my 2l firm. I just confidently said that offers hadn't gone out yet and went on with the interviews. You may not have any interest in changing firms, but if you have the grades it could be a security net should things fall apart at your firm. So you should be focused on nothing else but performing well this semester. The summer will take care of itself in due course and most likely will go really well, but you need to start preparing for the worst possible outcome now before its too late.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in this.. I am in a 2-person class at a V50 in a major city this summer. I consider it a blessing and a curse... personality/fit wise, I am fairly confident that I will gel with my co-workers... but fear that any mistake I make will be all the more glaring given the small class size.

Not sure there is any "approach" I should take, other than to work my butt off, but this is definitely something that I think/worry about often.

[NotoriousBIGlawlz]

Hello, TLS.

Long time lurker, first post ever. I'm a T20 2L who secured a SA position with a small regional office in the west coast of a large V50 firm.

I've been keeping up with the legal news and it seems offer rates for full time associates has been one of the highest since around the Great Recession era. Now it's close to 95% full time offer rates per NALP. My firm traditionally hovered around that.

I just had a few questions:
1. Assuming I do a satisfactory job (e.g. Working my ass off) am I almost guaranteed the full time offer? After all, if they don't hire me, they are delayed by one whole year is a busy office that needs manpower asap. I'm just a bit worried about my 1st sem grades.
2. I've been going thru incredible family problems, like being caught in the middle of my parents' divorce, and I performed rather poorly my first semester of 2L. Just north of a 3.0.
3. My firm requests official transcripts sent to the recruiting coordinator in a different state.
4. I'm working my ass off this sem to raise my gpa but I would like to hear from anyone who was also the only SA.

Does being the only SA have different perks leading to job security? How was your experience overall? I know it's firm dependent.

Anyway, thanks y'all!

Couple of thoughts from someone who was one of three SAs. First, there is no way anyone can be sure that you will get an offer based on your firm/class size. For one thing, the firm could care less about losing a class year (all one of you) and you are not the solution for a busy office. It will be more than 18 months before you are a permanent associate at the firm and a few more months before you are really contributing. Who knows what the market will be like then? Every firm and practice groups has its ups and downs and you could end up in the wrong firm at the wrong time and be out of luck.

Second, the no-offer risk could be higher for a one-person class. With large classes you just have to avoid doing anything to make yourself stand out in a bad way. With one person, you are going to be front and center the whole time. You will get all of the work opportunities, so everyone will evaluate your candidacy. If you have some personality quirk, your family problems come up again at the wrong time or are just not that quick on the uptake for the kind of work you're doing, you could find yourself on the outside looking in.

Therefore, you need to have the attitude that you are fighting for a job. All three summer associates at my firm were told that there was a presumption we would get an offer. The other two associates believed recruiting and enjoyed the summer. I worked my tail off and got the only offer of the class. The lesson is that from today onward you need to be convinced that you are trying to earn a permanent job every day.

That begins with focusing on your grades. Depending on how your firm times offers, you can possibly apply to other firms before you actually find out if you get an offer (easier to say you don't know than to say you were no-offered). I ended up at a much better firm after graduation before I even received an offer from my 2l firm. I just confidently said that offers hadn't gone out yet and went on with the interviews. You may not have any interest in changing firms, but if you have the grades it could be a security net should things fall apart at your firm. So you should be focused on nothing else but performing well this semester. The summer will take care of itself in due course and most likely will go really well, but you need to start preparing for the worst possible outcome now before its too late.

Thank you so much for the response. I agree with almost everything you said and wanted confirmation. Since I'm the only SA, I don't expect any "schmoozing" or a chill summer really. I'm grinding till I get that offer.

That being said, my firm is close to 95% offer rate, and I don't think grades will be an issue as long as I don't get C's. But I am in the process of studying about 80% as hard as I did 1L.

Also, my firm should extend or decline an offer late July to mid August. So wouldnt it be inappropriate to begin mass mailing during and immediately after my SA is over? I mean, the legal market is a tight knit one even in the west coast. I would have to leverage the fact that I am a big law SA at X firm. and 3L OCI statistically is a nightmare.

[NotoriousBIGlawlz]

Interested in this.. I am in a 2-person class at a V50 in a major city this summer. I consider it a blessing and a curse... personality/fit wise, I am fairly confident that I will gel with my co-workers... but fear that any mistake I make will be all the more glaring given the small class size.

Not sure there is any "approach" I should take, other than to work my butt off, but this is definitely something that I think/worry about often.

Yup, I feel you. I'm not only the sole SA, but I'm also the first SA class. The youngest 2 associates above me (one lateraled and the other was connected) are 2 years ahead of me.

While I don't have much of a clue of the nuances of practice, I'm just worried more if a 3.0+ at a T20 would be something I should worry about. SA work product and fit is supposed to be 90% of your "audition" and the remaining 10% are intangibles like grades?

[Anonymous User]

I was one of two SAs during my summer for a relatively small office (~50-60 attorneys). It was good and bad. Overall I would say it was a net positive.

Good because I felt like I could make actual good connections with different associates and partners, and I never felt like I was missing out on anything. Everyone knew who I was and I wasn't just one of the 10-15 SAs scurrying around. Bad because you are the center of attention during all of the summer events. Sure sometimes that can be a good thing, but it's nice to be able to have a few other kids around to spread the social pressures.

If you are in the first SA class, it might be a little rough. The program probably won't be that organized, and people will come to you and say "hey what do you want to do this summer." Trying to pick out events for everyone yourself instead of the firm just telling you is hard.

If your firm offer rate is good I wouldn't worry too much about your grades. Obviously try to do better this semester, and just don't start bombing classes. My firm asked for my transcript to pretty much make sure I graduated and to make sure I totally didn't fall off the deep end. By the time I had sent them my grades for 2L year (I also had a decent dip), people there liked me enough from the summer to give me an offer regardless.

[Anonymous User]

Well I'm the only summer in my summer SA job (a reputable regional mid-law). The guy who hired me was kind enough to let me know that, all of the associates they have right now are laterals ( with at least three year experience at biglaw). Moreover, the firm have a tendency to hire stellar graded 1L for their summers and that particular firm has been a tremendous jumping board for them ( they ended up in sul cro and stuff).

So I kinda feel like I'm not getting a permanent offer for this particular position. Btw my grades are super-mediocre in my school (regional strong T-30). By mediocre i meant top 30%. And for last semester I managed to pull myself to the upper 25%. Not sure how the heck i'm gonna survive and manage to get an offer from the office. I hate the idea that I might be compared to one of those 1L summers they hired with stellar grades, whereas I'm this ( by comparison) (academically thwarted) little 2L with far less satisfactory work product. To be fair that;s the biggest motivation for me to study my ass off right now

[Internetdan]

A satisfactory job? Being good is good, that will get you drew gooden. But you, you want Jordan numbers.

[Anonymous User]

SA #1 of 2-3 this summer checking in (regional big law, nlj250); AFAIK, 100% offer for 2Ls over the last few years. I'm excited about getting more face time with attorneys, but yeah, the social event thing seems unfortunate.

[zot1]

Even if your firm has had 100% offers historically, it doesn't mean you'll get an offer, unfortunately.

[Anonymous User]

Even if your firm has had 100% offers historically, it doesn't mean you'll get an offer, unfortunately.

Believe me, with their history of lateral hiring, there will be nothing short of 100% A-game and crossed fingers this summer.

[Anonymous User]

Also, my firm should extend or decline an offer late July to mid August. So wouldnt it be inappropriate to begin mass mailing during and immediately after my SA is over? I mean, the legal market is a tight knit one even in the west coast. I would have to leverage the fact that I am a big law SA at X firm. and 3L OCI statistically is a nightmare.

Anonymous poster this was responding to. I don't think you want to be interviewing before you leave the firm, but there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about applying for jobs before you get a permanent offer. You certainly shouldn't let the perceived "tight knittedness" of the market stop you. Firms you may interview with will understand the sensitivity of your situation and are unlikely to contact your SA firm unless you have told them you have an offer (to confirm you're telling the truth). There may be a really small risk (I doubt it though), but the alternative is doing nothing at all until it's too late. What if you hear nothing until mid- to late-August? At that point you are fighting with all the other students who were no-offered and those who want to change firms.

You should act as if you are unemployed until you receive a permanent offer. That means going through 3l OCI and mass mailing as early as possible. They are both jokes, but they are much better for people who have good grades and who have not been no-offered.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic. I assume you will have a great summer and end up with a permanent offer. I just think there is danger in you making the same assumption.

[Anonymous User]

I was one of 3 summers at my firm (about 100 attorneys) but the only 2L. That meant I got the bulk of the heavier assignments, which as others above have said, had its good and bad points. I got a ton of exposure to all manner of practice groups, always had at least a couple of projects going on at once, and got a lot of face time with the partners. That said, at times it was a bit overwhelming. Small classes usually mean a rather informal program, so while there technically was a partner who was supposed to be a gatekeeper for my assignments to make sure I wasn't swamped, in practice that didn't really work. It also meant that I didn't get to focus on the practice group I was most interested in, although the broad exposure had its own merits. Just make sure you work with whomever they've put "in charge" of you to make sure things don't get out of hand and that you get as much of the kind of work that you want as possible.

[NotoriousBIGlawlz]

Also, my firm should extend or decline an offer late July to mid August. So wouldnt it be inappropriate to begin mass mailing during and immediately after my SA is over? I mean, the legal market is a tight knit one even in the west coast. I would have to leverage the fact that I am a big law SA at X firm. and 3L OCI statistically is a nightmare.

Anonymous poster this was responding to. I don't think you want to be interviewing before you leave the firm, but there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about applying for jobs before you get a permanent offer. You certainly shouldn't let the perceived "tight knittedness" of the market stop you. Firms you may interview with will understand the sensitivity of your situation and are unlikely to contact your SA firm unless you have told them you have an offer (to confirm you're telling the truth). There may be a really small risk (I doubt it though), but the alternative is doing nothing at all until it's too late. What if you hear nothing until mid- to late-August? At that point you are fighting with all the other students who were no-offered and those who want to change firms.

You should act as if you are unemployed until you receive a permanent offer. That means going through 3l OCI and mass mailing as early as possible. They are both jokes, but they are much better for people who have good grades and who have not been no-offered.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic. I assume you will have a great summer and end up with a permanent offer. I just think there is danger in you making the same assumption.

Pessimism is also a key to success. No worries. I get where you're coming from. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Thanks for your input!

[NotoriousBIGlawlz]

SA #1 of 2-3 this summer checking in (regional big law, nlj250); AFAIK, 100% offer for 2Ls over the last few years. I'm excited about getting more face time with attorneys, but yeah, the social event thing seems unfortunate.

Definitely...the social aspect might be burdensome at times, but I conveyed (to my seniors and partners) that my greatest worry was not having the "crutch" of working with peers. Because SA's will know nothing, any questions I have must be asked...or google'd furiously.