Kirkland Bonuses? Forum

[Anonymous User]

The firm had a down year. People are being too harsh on K&E.


https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... -law-firms

they seriously need to raise bonuses, 1.1-1.3x is a joke.

Kirkland's journey suggests that this is never going to happen. As an associate you were beating market much more proportionally when the firm was bringing in $500m in revenue back in the 90s and they viewed you as the next class of actual partners to continue the business of the firm and wanted to get you wrapped into the culture vs. now at $6b in revenue when you're seen as a replaceable cog in an unfeeling machine. I guess it's rational in a sort of way? Your average K&E associate in 2022 has 0 shot of becoming an equity partner (vs. the decent shot their equivalent would have had in 1992), so why even pretend to compensate them like they're a future part of the partnership vs. a temporary revenue source.

Prediction: This is never going to go back to where it was. The average multiplier is going to settle at around a 1.1-1.2x, just enough to save face and continue to claim "beat the market compensation" (it'll be subject to this new 2,000 hours requirement that never existed before) and that's the end of it. The K&E associate culture of 1996 or whatever is gone and has been for a while. I suspect even the moaning and groaning that we see ITT will stop pretty soon since the memory of those days is fading and there aren't many (non-SPs) even left around at the firm who can genuinely say they saw what it was like back in the day.

[Anonymous User]

Are people under the impression that at other firms you get equity at 8 years? Aside from like Cravath I think pretty much all firms do NSP these days, with equity much later if at all.

I'd say 10-12 years is a pretty typical path these days. 8 years as an associate 2-4 years as a counsel and then equity.

8 years to equity still possible at multiple V10s

[Anonymous User]

The firm had a down year. People are being too harsh on K&E.


https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... -law-firms

they seriously need to raise bonuses, 1.1-1.3x is a joke.

lol only took them 9x the deals and probably at least 10x the lawyers to pass WLRK

Ignorant take. Public M&A very different from private M&A.

[Anonymous User]

Are people under the impression that at other firms you get equity at 8 years? Aside from like Cravath I think pretty much all firms do NSP these days, with equity much later if at all.

I'd say 10-12 years is a pretty typical path these days. 8 years as an associate 2-4 years as a counsel and then equity.

is this true for firms like STB/DPW/debevoise as well? Took a look at STB's new cohort of partners this year and several of them got promoted to partnership at year 7 or 8. Since the firms do not hire laterals that much, does this mean if you toughen it out long enough, you will get your shot?

[Anonymous User]

Are people under the impression that at other firms you get equity at 8 years? Aside from like Cravath I think pretty much all firms do NSP these days, with equity much later if at all.

I'd say 10-12 years is a pretty typical path these days. 8 years as an associate 2-4 years as a counsel and then equity.

is this true for firms like STB/DPW/debevoise as well? Took a look at STB's new cohort of partners this year and several of them got promoted to partnership at year 7 or 8. Since the firms do not hire laterals that much, does this mean if you toughen it out long enough, you will get your shot?

I believe the “7th years” promoted were JD-MBAs so actually treated as 8th years, for what it’s worth. But I would trust promotions directly from associate at 8th year more seriously than counsel who were promoted after 10 years as counsel; the latter are probably still the same thing as they were just now with a non-equity partner title.

Looking at STB in particular, you can tell a narrative in the 8th year promotions: Funds, which has had incredible growth, has the lion’s share, then a smattering scattered elsewhere.

[Anonymous User]

Are people under the impression that at other firms you get equity at 8 years? Aside from like Cravath I think pretty much all firms do NSP these days, with equity much later if at all.

I'd say 10-12 years is a pretty typical path these days. 8 years as an associate 2-4 years as a counsel and then equity.

is this true for firms like STB/DPW/debevoise as well? Took a look at STB's new cohort of partners this year and several of them got promoted to partnership at year 7 or 8. Since the firms do not hire laterals that much, does this mean if you toughen it out long enough, you will get your shot?

I believe the “7th years” promoted were JD-MBAs so actually treated as 8th years, for what it’s worth. But I would trust promotions directly from associate at 8th year more seriously than counsel who were promoted after 10 years as counsel; the latter are probably still the same thing as they were just now with a non-equity partner title.

Looking at STB in particular, you can tell a narrative in the 8th year promotions: Funds, which has had incredible growth, has the lion’s share, then a smattering scattered elsewhere.

Sorry to bust your bubbles but these are non-equity partners at STB. They quietly created the non-equity tier a couple years ago.

[Anonymous User]

Slightly off-topic. At the firms with equity partnership only (SC, Skadden, DPW, PW, Willkie) how much comp can you expect in your first partner years after being promoted internally with no significant book?

[Anonymous User]

The firm had a down year. People are being too harsh on K&E.


https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... -law-firms

they seriously need to raise bonuses, 1.1-1.3x is a joke.

lol only took them 9x the deals and probably at least 10x the lawyers to pass WLRK

ok? lol tf

[GermanLawyer]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

This is mostly wrong, and it's clear from the end of the comment that it's hearsay. Good example of why it's inadmissible.

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

This is mostly wrong, and it's clear from the end of the comment that it's hearsay. Good example of why it's inadmissible.

I’m the anon you’re quoting and my response is: Put up or shut up? My info comes from friends here who have gone NSP to SP and from lateral NSPs who wanted info on the path to shares before agreeing to come over. My post makes it pretty obvious I’m not an SP and not suggesting I am but rather I’m trying to piece together info to make an opaque aspect of the firm a little less opaque. Feel free to add what you think is better info that’s the point of this discussion.

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

This is mostly wrong, and it's clear from the end of the comment that it's hearsay. Good example of why it's inadmissible.

I’m the anon you’re quoting and my response is: Put up or shut up? My info comes from friends here who have gone NSP to SP and from lateral NSPs who wanted info on the path to shares before agreeing to come over. My post makes it pretty obvious I’m not an SP and not suggesting I am but rather I’m trying to piece together info to make an opaque aspect of the firm a little less opaque. Feel free to add what you think is better info that’s the point of this discussion.

Agree with anon immediately above I’ve heard 1.5 and 2.5 from SPs directly that I trust. No idea on the buyin though, surprised no one has ever really talked about that and wonder why it wouldn’t just be a profits interest, it’s not like the firm needs the cash and I don’t think they’d reference those numbers if a large amount came out of it to pay down a capital contribution.

[Anonymous User]

Saw some discussion about this from 2016 but wanted to check... I lateraled during 2021. My bonus was prorated from my start date through Aug 31 (and not through end of year). Does this sound right? Thanks!!

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

This is mostly wrong, and it's clear from the end of the comment that it's hearsay. Good example of why it's inadmissible.

I’m the anon you’re quoting and my response is: Put up or shut up? My info comes from friends here who have gone NSP to SP and from lateral NSPs who wanted info on the path to shares before agreeing to come over. My post makes it pretty obvious I’m not an SP and not suggesting I am but rather I’m trying to piece together info to make an opaque aspect of the firm a little less opaque. Feel free to add what you think is better info that’s the point of this discussion.

Agree with anon immediately above I’ve heard 1.5 and 2.5 from SPs directly that I trust. No idea on the buyin though, surprised no one has ever really talked about that and wonder why it wouldn’t just be a profits interest, it’s not like the firm needs the cash and I don’t think they’d reference those numbers if a large amount came out of it to pay down a capital contribution.

The buyin is essentially meaningless given the amounts SPs are making and they finance it for you at 1% interest and you just pay it in over time.

[Anonymous User]

Saw some discussion about this from 2016 but wanted to check... I lateraled during 2021. My bonus was prorated from my start date through Aug 31 (and not through end of year). Does this sound right? Thanks!!

Our billable year (for purposes of bonuses) ends Aug 31, so yes. Your hours from Sept 1 - end of year will count towards next year's bonus. Always negotiate a non-prorated bonus in the offer letter.

[Anonymous User]

Re firms that still have only Equity Partners and are non-lockstep (S&C, PW, Skadden): what is the comp there for a Junior Partner after being promoted internally?

To bring it back on topic, I can roughly answer this for Kirkland even though it doesn't fit your paradigm since they have a non-equity tier. With the new "half equity" step Ballis announced in December, your first year of "equity" you make $1.5m, reportedly. Then in your second year you get your full grant of shares. Not sure how much variance there is in what newly promoted equity partners get but the value of a MINIMUM grant of shares has been over $2m for some time and I wouldn't be surprised if it's near $2.5m now. Not sure how much buy-in is here--would love for someone w/ some knowledge of that to chime in; my guess is the firm has some sort of arrangement they've made with Private Bank or else internally to allow you to pay the buy-in over time.

This is mostly wrong, and it's clear from the end of the comment that it's hearsay. Good example of why it's inadmissible.

I’m the anon you’re quoting and my response is: Put up or shut up? My info comes from friends here who have gone NSP to SP and from lateral NSPs who wanted info on the path to shares before agreeing to come over. My post makes it pretty obvious I’m not an SP and not suggesting I am but rather I’m trying to piece together info to make an opaque aspect of the firm a little less opaque. Feel free to add what you think is better info that’s the point of this discussion.

Agree with anon immediately above I’ve heard 1.5 and 2.5 from SPs directly that I trust. No idea on the buyin though, surprised no one has ever really talked about that and wonder why it wouldn’t just be a profits interest, it’s not like the firm needs the cash and I don’t think they’d reference those numbers if a large amount came out of it to pay down a capital contribution.

24 hours on from that weird post and no response make me think this is a "doth protest too much" situation where we're actually 100% right about this and some bugged out share partner was just reacting to "proprietary" info being publicly discussed.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

Things have slowed down a lot this year (thankfully). If you are on that pace, its all on you and bonuses will not be bigger this year than last (since last year was historically busy and our numbers are down by a wide margin from the same period last year).

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

Things have slowed down a lot this year (thankfully). If you are on that pace, its all on you and bonuses will not be bigger this year than last (since last year was historically busy and our numbers are down by a wide margin from the same period last year).

How much are numbers down, pls share

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

My thought is you should walk into the head of your practice group's office and say "either we get my hours down to 200 or less per month or I lateral next month." lol at billing 3,000+ hours for a 1.25x multiplier.

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

My thought is you should walk into the head of your practice group's office and say "either we get my hours down to 200 or less per month or I lateral next month." lol at billing 3,000+ hours for a 1.25x multiplier.

No need to pull a Jerry Maguire … just say you’re at capacity but thanks for the opp… whether you’re asked by a sp, nsp, sawnsp

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

My thought is you should walk into the head of your practice group's office and say "either we get my hours down to 200 or less per month or I lateral next month." lol at billing 3,000+ hours for a 1.25x multiplier.

No need to pull a Jerry Maguire … just say you’re at capacity but thanks for the opp… whether you’re asked by a sp, nsp, sawnsp

I guess that works slowly lol but if I were pacing for 3500 I don't think I could handle waiting for matters to slowly drop away I think I'd just flip out

[Anonymous User]

Are some folks still annualizing 3400-3500 hrs like last year? Thoughts on the expected multiplier this year for 3400-3500….

My thought is you should walk into the head of your practice group's office and say "either we get my hours down to 200 or less per month or I lateral next month." lol at billing 3,000+ hours for a 1.25x multiplier.

No need to pull a Jerry Maguire … just say you’re at capacity but thanks for the opp… whether you’re asked by a sp, nsp, sawnsp

I guess that works slowly lol but if I were pacing for 3500 I don't think I could handle waiting for matters to slowly drop away I think I'd just flip out

The point is to balance your matters as they come in so you’re never pacing for 3500 in the first place. If you’re good at saying no, the free market system is a beautiful thing and you can maintain rough control over your hours for the year (obviously unexpected things happen, and we’re talking about an imprecise yes/no to an entire deal, not fine-tuned control, but still).

I’ve said no to SPs and NSPs on multiple occasions when I was at capacity and it hasn’t hurt me one bit.