Leave firm after 4 months? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I moved to a new state and started a job at a large regional firm a few months ago doing corporate/real estate work. I'm not getting enough billable hours to even come close to hitting my target--forget about bonuses! I've talked to several people at the firm and they have all told me that my work product is great, but there is just not enough work in my office. I'm having to network within my firm with out of state offices to get work. While I'm ok with that, I don't believe I will get a steady stream of work from other offices to meet my billable requirements. My concern is that I'm not getting the experience I need to eventually go in-house. I don't want to become unmarketable because my firm is slow.

Enter firm 2. Before selecting my current firm, I was debating between a large national firm with a small branch office in the state versus the large regional firm I ended up picking. I turned down the large national firm because I wanted a firm that had more local roots. Well, firm 2 has a corporate opening now and the managing partner called me to personally let me know. Needless to say, I'm intrigued.

My questions are the following:
1. I realize that the nature of corporate work is cyclical and it may just be a really slow period. However, how many of my corporate associate counterparts out there are averaging 80 hours a month?

2. Would it look bad on my resume to future employers if I jump ship after just a few months instead of waiting it out and giving my current firm at least a year? My concern with this is that the position at Firm 2 will no longer be available then.

3. How do I figure out if I'll have the same issues at Firm 2? What types of questions should I be asking to make sure I'm not in this situation again?

Thanks for reading.

[Anonymous User]

What market are you in? Check out the below thread. In TX, things are slow and people are considering moving. Some considerations are whether you will be getting the experience that you need (or could otherwise get at another firm) and whether you will be let go eventually. You are likely costing the firm more than you are brining in, which no firm will let go on indefinitely. If you are let go, you will likely go through a period where you scramble to find something. The larger firm can probably hold on to you for longer and it seems that they are not having problems brining in work anyway.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=259101

[Anonymous User]

Were you a brand new attorney or a lateral?

[zot1]

Interview. If you get an offer and want it, take it.

[Pressenda]

Were you a brand new attorney or a lateral?

Does it matter if the OP was a newbie or a lateral? 80 hours a month is bad regardless, right?

[Anonymous User]

If you lateral now, it will be very hard to lateral again in 1-2 years without people thinking you are incompetent or a flight risk. You need to be very, very, very sure that your new firm is a better fit.

80 hours a month is not good, but it's not absurd in your first few months in a slow practice group in a bad economy. My advice is to stick it out, focus on doing stellar work when you have it, and build relationships that will get you more work. It's going to be much better for you long-term if you stay, and it's a lot harder to get let go if you are doing great work and actively hustling for more of it.

[Anonymous User]

Were you a brand new attorney or a lateral?

Does it matter if the OP was a newbie or a lateral? 80 hours a month is bad regardless, right?

I was a mid-level lateral in this position. As a mid-level, I was able to make the decision to leave after only a few months pretty easily. My old firm was very strong in my practice area, but my new firm had barely any work and barely any clients. And my old firm had great people to work with, and the new one not so much. I could judge that my <100 hour months weren't going to change because of my prior experience at another firm, and I knew that not all biglaw attorneys are stress-inducing maniacs. It is harder to judge what is going on if you don't have prior experience at a firm....

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the comments thus far. I'm a junior level lateral. Like the above poster, I had more work at my previous firm as well, which is weird because it was significantly smaller than my current firm. My old firm also had friendlier/less awkward people to work with, more partners that actually cared about my professional development and their role as my mentor. At my current firm, people aren't as social, some are just plain awkward, and I'm not getting the feeling that partners care about my professional development that much.

I honestly don't foresee much changing within the next year - maybe I'll get a few assignments from partners in other offices, but I can't see this being a consistent stream of work. I'm just really frustrated and not sure what to do. If I leave my current firm, I think it could be easily explained to another employer, but like someone said above, I can't leave the next job for several years for fear of appearing like a flight risk.

[#BigLaw]

I'm in transactional, and I didn't bill that much more than you in January. Many of the people in my group and the other transactional practices have been complaining about January being one of their slowest months in a couple of years. It's not unusual to be slow in the first quarter then pick up. You mention getting work from other offices, but can you ask for work outside of your practice group and office to supplement your hours? It can be a consistent stream (maybe not a huge stream, but consistent) if you build up a good relationship with the people you are working with.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the comments thus far. I'm a junior level lateral. Like the above poster, I had more work at my previous firm as well, which is weird because it was significantly smaller than my current firm. My old firm also had friendlier/less awkward people to work with, more partners that actually cared about my professional development and their role as my mentor. At my current firm, people aren't as social, some are just plain awkward, and I'm not getting the feeling that partners care about my professional development that much.

I honestly don't foresee much changing within the next year - maybe I'll get a few assignments from partners in other offices, but I can't see this being a consistent stream of work. I'm just really frustrated and not sure what to do. If I leave my current firm, I think it could be easily explained to another employer, but like someone said above, I can't leave the next job for several years for fear of appearing like a flight risk.

OP here. Thanks for all the comments thus far. I'm a junior level lateral. Like the above poster, I had more work at my previous firm as well, which is weird because it was significantly smaller than my current firm. My old firm also had friendlier/less awkward people to work with, more partners that actually cared about my professional development and their role as my mentor. At my current firm, people aren't as social, some are just plain awkward, and I'm not getting the feeling that partners care about my professional development that much.

I honestly don't foresee much changing within the next year - maybe I'll get a few assignments from partners in other offices, but I can't see this being a consistent stream of work. I'm just really frustrated and not sure what to do. If I leave my current firm, I think it could be easily explained to another employer, but like someone said above, I can't leave the next job for several years for fear of appearing like a flight risk.

I am the above poster you refer to. We are seemingly having parallel experiences. I am sorry about that-I found it miserable. All of bolded above was also true for me. I was a mid-level at the time, but on the more junior end of mid-levels.

Is there any possibilities of going back to your old firm? I wouldn't discount this option. Why did you leave in the first place?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Unfortunately, I can't go back to my old firm since I moved out of state. But I am meeting with Firm 2 soon regarding the new position the partner contacted me about. Any suggestions on what questions I should ask him to ensure that I'm not leaving my current situation for something that's similar or worse? I feel like some of my concerns such as professional development, mentoring, having enough billable hours from my office and not having to network with other office locations to get work are things that I may not find answers to until after working there for a bit.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah poster above again. I thought I asked a lot of good questions in my interviews and it was a pretty prestigious firm. One problem is that you can't really count on honest answers, unless you know someone at the firm in your practice group. I was told that they were SO BUSY, there would be tons of cases for me to work on, support staff was good, and I could cross-staff with other offices easily. None of that was actually true. And the associates told me the main partner in the office in our practice group was "great" to work with. If being volatile, creating false urgency, giving associates secretarial work, and expecting you to be in your office every moment he is there, I would beg to differ on "great." I felt like I didn't know how to judge a firm, which is why I went back to old firm. I also moved away so I work from my house. Don't quote please.

[Anonymous User]

My questions are the following:
1. I realize that the nature of corporate work is cyclical and it may just be a really slow period. However, how many of my corporate associate counterparts out there are averaging 80 hours a month?

I'm a first year at a satellite office of a larger firm doing corporate. After billing 170 in December I billed 120 in January and I'm at 80 hours for February. From talking to friends at other firms doing corporate, they are also pretty slow.

[Anonymous User]

My questions are the following:
1. I realize that the nature of corporate work is cyclical and it may just be a really slow period. However, how many of my corporate associate counterparts out there are averaging 80 hours a month?

I'm a first year at a satellite office of a larger firm doing corporate. After billing 170 in December I billed 120 in January and I'm at 80 hours for February. From talking to friends at other firms doing corporate, they are also pretty slow.

Would you mind telling us what part of the country you are in or what industry focus you have (if any)?

[Anonymous User]

My questions are the following:
1. I realize that the nature of corporate work is cyclical and it may just be a really slow period. However, how many of my corporate associate counterparts out there are averaging 80 hours a month?

I'm a first year at a satellite office of a larger firm doing corporate. After billing 170 in December I billed 120 in January and I'm at 80 hours for February. From talking to friends at other firms doing corporate, they are also pretty slow.

Would you mind telling us what part of the country you are in or what industry focus you have (if any)?

Texas - cap markets and M&A

[Anonymous User]

My situation was similar to yours. I picked a regional firm over a smaller office of a national firm. After working at the regional firm for 6 months, the partners at the national firm called and asked whether I was interested in an opening. I met up with him for lunch and ended up transferring to the national firm. The firm ended up hiring me without posting the opening for interviews. I've been here almost 4.5 years and I know I made the right decision.

To answer your question, no one has said anything about leaving the regional firm after 6 months. Of course, I've been at my current firm 4.5 years, so I doubt anyone would ever ask me why I switched firm the in the first place. That said, if you also stayed at the new firm for only a short while, then it may raise a red flag in the future.

Good luck to you!

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for everyone's comments. I'm meeting with Firm 2's managing partner tomorrow to discuss details of the position. However, I've also managed to track down the prior associate that left that firm and turns out he had similar issues there that I'm having at my current firm. It'll be interesting to hear what the partner says. At this point I'm leaning towards staring at my current firm. I'll report back.