Small/Mid Size Partner Compensation Forum

[RobertGolddust]

Doing some research on this topic, and could not find a decent answer. Anyone know how much a partner makes at a small to mid-size firm in a secondary market?

[rpupkin]

Varies widely, both between firms and within the same firm.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty dumb question. Could be anywhere from 0-4.5 million a year

[Johann]

probably about 500-750k a year.

[Abbie Doobie]

there is a partner at my firm that can't be any more than 5' 2" and he's gotta be pulling in $1-2M

[Anonymous User]

As has been stated, it varies by so much it's hard to provide a good answer.

I do know several partners in small/mid markets and I'd say most pull in $200k - $375k in solid markets (e.g. established practices in major metro areas that nonetheless aren't big enough to qualify as true secondary markets), whereas $145k - $225k is more the norm in smaller markets / slower practices. Again, hard to say that's helpful at all. Of course, this stuff scales a lot with COL, so $195k in Jefferson City or $260k in Columbus might be pretty damned good.

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

Thanks for this. Would you mind sharing whether this is lit or corporate and how many hours you think these partners are billing (in each case)?

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

Thanks for this. Would you mind sharing whether this is lit or corporate and how many hours you think these partners are billing (in each case)?

The mid size law firm is almost exclusively insurance and casualty and business litigation on the defense side.

The small firm has a lot of diversity in practice area. One partner does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a, three have a practice involving transactional real estate zoning/regulation and some other corporate transactional work, one that does business litigation and aviation litigation on the defense side and very occasionally takes on plaintiff work on cases with big contingency fees as a sorta side deal, one that does only insurance and casualty defense lititgation, three doing family and criminal litigation.

The partners doing criminal and family law are on the lower end and they tend to bill less and one is way to lax about collecting from the family law clients. The partner who does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a took home the 1,250,000 (all from hourly billing) and the business/aviation litigation partner took home somewhere over 750,000. Those are the two highest earners and they both bill alot. Billing varies highly between partners and rates vary between partners in their respective practice areas.

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

Thanks for this. Would you mind sharing whether this is lit or corporate and how many hours you think these partners are billing (in each case)?

The mid size law firm is almost exclusively insurance and casualty and business litigation on the defense side.

The small firm has a lot of diversity in practice area. One partner does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a, three have a practice involving transactional real estate zoning/regulation and some other corporate transactional work, one that does business litigation and aviation litigation on the defense side and very occasionally takes on plaintiff work on cases with big contingency fees as a sorta side deal, one that does only insurance and casualty defense lititgation, three doing family and criminal litigation.

The partners doing criminal and family law are on the lower end and they tend to bill less and one is way to lax about collecting from the family law clients. The partner who does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a took home the 1,250,000 (all from hourly billing) and the business/aviation litigation partner took home somewhere over 750,000. (also likely has a 2.5 million dollar contingency fee from a plaintiff case coming in the next three years as lagniappe) Those are the two highest earners and they both bill alot. Billing varies highly between partners and rates vary between partners in their respective practice areas.

[Anonymous User]

Boutique transactional work in NOLA sounds pretty 180. These guys hiring associates?

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

Thanks for this. Would you mind sharing whether this is lit or corporate and how many hours you think these partners are billing (in each case)?

The mid size law firm is almost exclusively insurance and casualty and business litigation on the defense side.

The small firm has a lot of diversity in practice area. One partner does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a, three have a practice involving transactional real estate zoning/regulation and some other corporate transactional work, one that does business litigation and aviation litigation on the defense side and very occasionally takes on plaintiff work on cases with big contingency fees as a sorta side deal, one that does only insurance and casualty defense lititgation, three doing family and criminal litigation.

The partners doing criminal and family law are on the lower end and they tend to bill less and one is way to lax about collecting from the family law clients. The partner who does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a took home the 1,250,000 (all from hourly billing) and the business/aviation litigation partner took home somewhere over 750,000. Those are the two highest earners and they both bill alot. Billing varies highly between partners and rates vary between partners in their respective practice areas.

Very helpful Anon, thanks. So the M&A partner who took home $1.25M from hourly billing - is that to say that he and his associates brought that in through billing, or are you saying that is all the partner's work? What would you say the hourly rates are for that partner (at 300, 400 and 500 $/hr, his hours would be 4166, 3125 and 2500, respectively)? Also, do you think that $1.25M is net or gross?

[kcdc1]

there is a partner at my firm that can't be any more than 5' 2" and he's gotta be pulling in $1-2M

Are we thinking of the same small/midsize partner? Another benefit of going down this path is that you save on COL by buying smaller home, pants, etc.

[RobertGolddust]

Thanks for the responses, they were all helpful except for this:

Pretty dumb question. Could be anywhere from 0-4.5 million a year

[Anonymous User]

there is a partner at my firm that can't be any more than 5' 2" and he's gotta be pulling in $1-2M

Are you certain he's not a Gringotts goblin?

[rpupkin]

Thanks for the responses, they were all helpful except for this:

Pretty dumb question. Could be anywhere from 0-4.5 million a year

It was the most accurate post in this thread. I'm serious.

I know three partners in small firms: one had negative income last year (he literally lost money), another made about $250K (which is roughly average for him), and another made millions.

Your question was hopelessly broad. It's like asking how many points does a NBA player score in a year.

[Anonymous User]

Just an anecdote from the two law firms I have personal experience with. A midsize law firm where partners were bringing in 275,000 to 475,000 and a small firm (9 partners) where partners are ranging from 450,000 to 1,250,000. At the smaller firm its a more spartan operation and partners are taking home about 20% more of their billable hours and that has something to do with difference along with some substantial difference in the practices of the partners from the two. Both of these firm are in the New Orleans Metro area.

Thanks for this. Would you mind sharing whether this is lit or corporate and how many hours you think these partners are billing (in each case)?

The mid size law firm is almost exclusively insurance and casualty and business litigation on the defense side.

The small firm has a lot of diversity in practice area. One partner does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a, three have a practice involving transactional real estate zoning/regulation and some other corporate transactional work, one that does business litigation and aviation litigation on the defense side and very occasionally takes on plaintiff work on cases with big contingency fees as a sorta side deal, one that does only insurance and casualty defense lititgation, three doing family and criminal litigation.

The partners doing criminal and family law are on the lower end and they tend to bill less and one is way to lax about collecting from the family law clients. The partner who does corporate transactional work in venture capital/m&a took home the 1,250,000 (all from hourly billing) and the business/aviation litigation partner took home somewhere over 750,000. Those are the two highest earners and they both bill alot. Billing varies highly between partners and rates vary between partners in their respective practice areas.

Very helpful Anon, thanks. So the M&A partner who took home $1.25M from hourly billing - is that to say that he and his associates brought that in through billing, or are you saying that is all the partner's work? What would you say the hourly rates are for that partner (at 300, 400 and 500 $/hr, his hours would be 4166, 3125 and 2500, respectively)? Also, do you think that $1.25M is net or gross?

That is all the partner's work. The 1.25M is gross personal income pretax. His total billings for 2015 were over 1.5 million dollars. Definitely bills over 500/hr. He owes 40% of his first million in earnings to the law firm, and then he takes 100% of everything past that. The second highest earner has the same deal. Other partners have their own arrangements which vary. The firm only has one associate and is going to be adding a few more in the coming years, and is extremely top heavy for that reason. Associates are a negligible source of income for partners in this firm. The midsize firm is completely different. They spend tons of money on technology, support staff, fancy office etc. Very image driven/wanna be biglaw and that reduces profits per partner and generally billing in insurance casualty is the lion share of work and it pays less per hour than business litigation or transnational work of the smaller firm. Moral of the story is bigger firm with lots of associates does not necessarily mean a more profitable situation for partners.

[RobertGolddust]

It was the most accurate post in this thread. I'm serious.

I know three partners in small firms: one had negative income last year (he literally lost money), another made about $250K (which is roughly average for him), and another made millions.

Your question was hopelessly broad. It's like asking how many points does a NBA player score in a year.

Make a common sense assumption, I'm not drafting a contract, my post was merely a casual inquiry.

[rpupkin]

It was the most accurate post in this thread. I'm serious.

I know three partners in small firms: one had negative income last year (he literally lost money), another made about $250K (which is roughly average for him), and another made millions.

Your question was hopelessly broad. It's like asking how many points does a NBA player score in a year.

Make a common sense assumption, I'm not drafting a contract, my post was merely a casual inquiry.

What is the "common sense assumption" to make? The point is that there isn't one.

And if you want to write casual, vague questions, that's fine. But if you're going to do that, why call out a poster for failing to provide you with helpful advice? Lame.

[RobertGolddust]

This

"common sense assumption"

means any helpful advice is invited.

why call out a poster for failing to provide you with helpful advice?

Why call out a poster for asking a stupid question because it's overly broad?

[ballouttacontrol]

This

"common sense assumption"

means any helpful advice is invited.

why call out a poster for failing to provide you with helpful advice?

Why call out a poster for asking a stupid question because it's overly broad?

damnnnnnn owned by the 1L

[Anonymous User]

This is something I've been curious about too. I think it's credited that the distribution of partner salaries is massive, but I also think it's possible to give helpful information regarding this topic.

From what I've learned, there are a ton of factors that play into this. This may be obvious to everyone but me, but it helped me to learn that different firms structure their partner compensation differently. Off the top of my head, I know several midlaw (50+) firms in or around my market that compensate vastly different ways - one firm does a lockstep year-to-year increase, with equity partners getting the lion's share of what's left (which, spoiler alert, is essentially everything); another treats all partners equally, has no equity/non-equity distinction, and are all paid the same; yet another employs the more traditional origination-based compensation approach.

Obviously, partners in the second firm will be paid differently than in the last firm. Ranges in my area likely go from $140k-$2m+, with the majority falling somewhere in the middle (I'd guess around $200k-$300k).

HTH/YMMV