Let's talk in-house salaries Forum

[Anonymous User]

When considering in-house opportunities, are there things I should be considering in terms of the equity component at a startup/private company vs publicly traded companies? It seems like there's a lot of potential upside to startup stock, but it's also possible that you end up holding the stock for a long period of time (indefinitely) or in the worst scenario the value goes to $0 eventually. In larger public companies the equity component seems more "real" in that as soon as the stock vests I could spend that money if I wanted/needed to, and even though the stock price may dip, it seems like there's a pretty low likelihood of the stock truly being worth nothing.

Just wondering how that factors into considering different roles and negotiating the compensation.

You kind of just described it: It's a lottery ticket. You never know, it may take forever, it may go to zero. If considering a startup offer you need to think about the size of the equity award, understand the refresh option grant practices, know how much a % your equity represents so that if the company is a home-run then you make out big.

[Anonymous User]

Figured I'd post another data point.

• Class of 2016 working at an energy company in a major market

• Salary = $265k

• Bonus = 30% (historically pay ~5% over bonus target)

• Stock options (company is private but going public in next 12-24 months)

• 6% 401k match vesting immediately

• Unlimited PTO

• Can work in one of several offices or be 100% remote

• 100% employer paid medical/dental/vision PPO for me and my family

[Anonymous User]

Figured I'd post another data point.

• Class of 2016 working at an energy company in a major market

• Salary = $250k

• Bonus = 25% (historically pay ~5% over bonus target)

• Stock options (company is private but going public in next 12-24 months)

• 6% 401k match vesting immediately

• Unlimited PTO

• Can work in one of several offices or be 100% remote

• 100% employer paid medical/dental/vision PPO for me and my family

That's incredible. If I am doing the math right, you are making 250 + (.3 * 250 = 75) + (.06 * 250 = 15) = 340 + Stock options, which is almost as much as you would be making as a big law 5th year if your options turn out to be worth anything. How do your hours compare to BL?

[Anonymous User]

Figured I'd post another data point.

• Class of 2016 working at an energy company in a major market

• Salary = $250k

• Bonus = 25% (historically pay ~5% over bonus target)

• Stock options (company is private but going public in next 12-24 months)

• 6% 401k match vesting immediately

• Unlimited PTO

• Can work in one of several offices or be 100% remote

• 100% employer paid medical/dental/vision PPO for me and my family

That's incredible. If I am doing the math right, you are making 250 + (.3 * 250 = 75) + (.06 * 250 = 15) = 340 + Stock options, which is almost as much as you would be making as a big law 5th year if your options turn out to be worth anything. How do your hours compare to BL?

Yeah, your numbers are right. I'm very fortunate to be in a hot niche area (renewable energy), although I know I'm on the high end of the compensation spectrum.

Hours are pretty much 9-6 M-F with rare evening work when transactions are closing, even rarer weekend work.

[Vr1234]

Left big law after about 4-5 years. Moved to a non-legal role at a tech company that uses my legal training. Completely remote, flexible hours. Very little emails. Matching 401k at 100% up to 6% contribution. $150k, with a $150k discretionary bonus. 9-5 hours. Full health care obviously. Honestly, couldn't be happier with the exit.

You guys hiring?

lol i can suggest the recruiter, if you want

[thisismytlsuername]

Left big law after about 4-5 years. Moved to a non-legal role at a tech company that uses my legal training. Completely remote, flexible hours. Very little emails. Matching 401k at 100% up to 6% contribution. $150k, with a $150k discretionary bonus. 9-5 hours. Full health care obviously. Honestly, couldn't be happier with the exit.

You guys hiring?

lol i can suggest the recruiter, if you want

Send that PM on over.

[Anonymous User]

When considering in-house opportunities, are there things I should be considering in terms of the equity component at a startup/private company vs publicly traded companies? It seems like there's a lot of potential upside to startup stock, but it's also possible that you end up holding the stock for a long period of time (indefinitely) or in the worst scenario the value goes to $0 eventually. In larger public companies the equity component seems more "real" in that as soon as the stock vests I could spend that money if I wanted/needed to, and even though the stock price may dip, it seems like there's a pretty low likelihood of the stock truly being worth nothing.

Just wondering how that factors into considering different roles and negotiating the compensation.

You kind of just described it: It's a lottery ticket. You never know, it may take forever, it may go to zero. If considering a startup offer you need to think about the size of the equity award, understand the refresh option grant practices, know how much a % your equity represents so that if the company is a home-run then you make out big.

Can folks dig in a little more into what to consider/ask for in an offer for an in-house job at a tech unicorn? Interviewing now at a company that had a successful series D round and IPO looks likely. Assuming I get an offer, what should I be expecting and asking for? Position reports to the GC and would basically be head of litigation. I’m thinking $200-$250k total cash (salary + bonus), plus some amount of stock grant/options?

[attorney589753]

When considering in-house opportunities, are there things I should be considering in terms of the equity component at a startup/private company vs publicly traded companies? It seems like there's a lot of potential upside to startup stock, but it's also possible that you end up holding the stock for a long period of time (indefinitely) or in the worst scenario the value goes to $0 eventually. In larger public companies the equity component seems more "real" in that as soon as the stock vests I could spend that money if I wanted/needed to, and even though the stock price may dip, it seems like there's a pretty low likelihood of the stock truly being worth nothing.

Just wondering how that factors into considering different roles and negotiating the compensation.

You kind of just described it: It's a lottery ticket. You never know, it may take forever, it may go to zero. If considering a startup offer you need to think about the size of the equity award, understand the refresh option grant practices, know how much a % your equity represents so that if the company is a home-run then you make out big.

Can folks dig in a little more into what to consider/ask for in an offer for an in-house job at a tech unicorn? Interviewing now at a company that had a successful series D round and IPO looks likely. Assuming I get an offer, what should I be expecting and asking for? Position reports to the GC and would basically be head of litigation. I’m thinking $200-$250k total cash (salary + bonus), plus some amount of stock grant/options?

That sounds like right ballpark to me although if they are cash-flush from a recent financing, and you're fairly senior and their favorite candidate then I would think you could flex that cash component up some. Obviously you want to bring the spreadsheet out to take a look at the stock options and the equity component in light of recent financing round price, potential IPO price, etc. Note that depending on size of the organization they may be in the stage where they are giving pretty fixed range offers in terms of comp (especially on options), or claim to be are, so don't be surprised if you hear that. Happy to PM if helpful.

[JudgeNiceGuy]

I recently heard of an offer at a large tech company in Texas for a litigation counsel position:
Base: 145k to 155k
Annual Bonus: Up to 10%
Signing Bonus: 15k
No long term incentive program in the form of RSUs or equity. The person who received the offer had 3.5 years law experience, including 2.5 at a big law firm and 1 year as a federal clerk. Is this what I should expect if I am a similar candidate? or does this seem low or high?

[Anonymous User]

I recently heard of an offer at a large tech company in Texas for a litigation counsel position:
Base: 145k to 155k
Annual Bonus: Up to 10%
Signing Bonus: 15k
No long term incentive program in the form of RSUs or equity. The person who received the offer had 3.5 years law experience, including 2.5 at a big law firm and 1 year as a federal clerk. Is this what I should expect if I am a similar candidate? or does this seem low or high?

That's atrocious. They are going to be making 170k a year as a fourth year. Compared with 364k in biglaw with higher salary growth. Someone going inhouse as a fourth year should be getting at least mid 200s.

[TigerIsBack]

I recently heard of an offer at a large tech company in Texas for a litigation counsel position:
Base: 145k to 155k
Annual Bonus: Up to 10%
Signing Bonus: 15k
No long term incentive program in the form of RSUs or equity. The person who received the offer had 3.5 years law experience, including 2.5 at a big law firm and 1 year as a federal clerk. Is this what I should expect if I am a similar candidate? or does this seem low or high?

That's atrocious. They are going to be making 170k a year as a fourth year. Compared with 364k in biglaw with higher salary growth. Someone going inhouse as a fourth year should be getting at least mid 200s.

I'm not sure that's right. We're not comparing in-house to biglaw, because people go in-house precisely to get away from biglaw and the hours/demands, and there's always a heavy pay cut to do that. $364k includes COVID bonuses, which also inflates the real biglaw payscale because presumably those won't come every year once the market slows down, and on the theme of comparing apples to apples, I haven't heard of any companies paying COVID bonuses.

That said, certainly some 4th years get base salaries in the 200s. But most of them are probably corporate. And if that's your floor, you do you and I'm sure you'll find it eventually, you may just have to stay in biglaw awhile longer until you find it.

FWIW, I've heard of other tech companies offering a similar base salary in that $150k range to a 4th year leaving biglaw, but with a slightly higher bonus (in the range of 20%) and usually some form of equity.

So for a litigation role, I'm guessing it's slightly on the lower side, but probably not a crazy number.

[VentureMBA]

I recently heard of an offer at a large tech company in Texas for a litigation counsel position:
Base: 145k to 155k
Annual Bonus: Up to 10%
Signing Bonus: 15k
No long term incentive program in the form of RSUs or equity. The person who received the offer had 3.5 years law experience, including 2.5 at a big law firm and 1 year as a federal clerk. Is this what I should expect if I am a similar candidate? or does this seem low or high?

That's atrocious. They are going to be making 170k a year as a fourth year. Compared with 364k in biglaw with higher salary growth. Someone going inhouse as a fourth year should be getting at least mid 200s.

I'm not sure that's right. We're not comparing in-house to biglaw, because people go in-house precisely to get away from biglaw and the hours/demands, and there's always a heavy pay cut to do that. $364k includes COVID bonuses, which also inflates the real biglaw payscale because presumably those won't come every year once the market slows down, and on the theme of comparing apples to apples, I haven't heard of any companies paying COVID bonuses.

That said, certainly some 4th years get base salaries in the 200s. But most of them are probably corporate. And if that's your floor, you do you and I'm sure you'll find it eventually, you may just have to stay in biglaw awhile longer until you find it.

FWIW, I've heard of other tech companies offering a similar base salary in that $150k range to a 4th year leaving biglaw, but with a slightly higher bonus (in the range of 20%) and usually some form of equity.

So for a litigation role, I'm guessing it's slightly on the lower side, but probably not a crazy number.

There are EAs at big tech companies that make 100k+ and get equity.

If you go to law school, grind in big law and exit to make $150k you did something really wrong.

[thisismytlsuername]

There are EAs at big tech companies that make 100k+ and get equity.

If you go to law school, grind in big law and exit to make $150k you did something really wrong.

Between this post and personally knowing multiple people at KE who got $400k+ signing bonuses, I'm starting to think you just make stuff up...

[Anonymous User]

Microsoft 3-5 year comp scale is $190-200k all-in. It's not crazy at all.

[lolwutpar]

I would say it's bad only because there's no equity piece. The base & bonus sounds fairly normal for a bigger, public tech company. But no equity means the all-in comp is very much not great.

[VentureMBA]

There are EAs at big tech companies that make 100k+ and get equity.

If you go to law school, grind in big law and exit to make $150k you did something really wrong.

Between this post and personally knowing multiple people at KE who got $400k+ signing bonuses, I'm starting to think you just make stuff up...

For sure

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-execu ... e-per-year

[TigerIsBack]

Venture MBA that quora article is probably right. And no one is saying $150k base with $165k all in is good at a FAANG. But FAANG jobs are tough to get, and $150k base for an in house litigation 4th year role is not crazy at most companies and if you think it is, you must have incredible credentials that are skewing your reality of what roles are typical/attainable for most normal associates, or you’re just totally out of touch.

[thisismytlsuername]

There are EAs at big tech companies that make 100k+ and get equity.

If you go to law school, grind in big law and exit to make $150k you did something really wrong.

Between this post and personally knowing multiple people at KE who got $400k+ signing bonuses, I'm starting to think you just make stuff up...

For sure

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-execu ... e-per-year

Ah, an eight-year old Quora post as a source, and one that doesn't mention equity anywhere. Great support! Can you find me a single job listing for an EA -- anywhere -- that mentions an equity grant and a salary over $100k? While you do that I'll find a few hundred in-house counsel jobs that pay $150k.

[VentureMBA]

Venture MBA that quora article is probably right. And no one is saying $150k base with $165k all in is good at a FAANG. But FAANG jobs are tough to get, and $150k base for an in house litigation 4th year role is not crazy at most companies and if you think it is, you must have incredible credentials that are skewing your reality of what roles are typical/attainable for most normal associates, or you’re just totally out of touch.

It may be the going rate for that job with that experience, I just wouldn't take it. $165k all-in in a HCOL city after shelling out the money for law school and then grinding out 3 years of big law is a tough pill to swallow. If that's the expected outcome I don't know how anyone can rationalize going to law school in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

A v50 5th year real estate associate took the following offer: large insurance company, low 200's +25% bonus+4 weeks vacay+med insurance at $50/month.

[Anonymous User]

5 years in Biglaw, specialty practice

Base: 180k
Bonus: 15%
RSU: ~13k per year
PTO: 9 days

Thoughts?

[TigerIsBack]

5 years in Biglaw, specialty practice

Base: 180k
Bonus: 15%
RSU: ~13k per year
PTO: 9 days

Thoughts?

$220k all in seems pretty solid. Any idea the hours breakdown (i.e., is this in-house M&A with evenings and weekends or more governance and 9-6 hours)?

Assuming it's not much work on nights and weekends, comp seems pretty solid, but not so great that you couldn't try to negotiate for more. PTO seems pretty low, but do you increase to 15-20 days of PTO after your first couple years or remain at 9 for the foreseeable future?

[Anonymous User]

5 years in Biglaw, specialty practice

Base: 180k
Bonus: 15%
RSU: ~13k per year
PTO: 9 days

Thoughts?

$220k all in seems pretty solid. Any idea the hours breakdown (i.e., is this in-house M&A with evenings and weekends or more governance and 9-6 hours)?

Assuming it's not much work on nights and weekends, comp seems pretty solid, but not so great that you couldn't try to negotiate for more. PTO seems pretty low, but do you increase to 15-20 days of PTO after your first couple years or remain at 9 for the foreseeable future?

PTO increases after the first year, and they said there’s not much work on nights and weekends. Where would you negotiate for more? RSU? Bonus? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Figured I'd post another data point.

• Class of 2016 working at an energy company in a major market

• Salary = $250k

• Bonus = 25% (historically pay ~5% over bonus target)

• Stock options (company is private but going public in next 12-24 months)

• 6% 401k match vesting immediately

• Unlimited PTO

• Can work in one of several offices or be 100% remote

• 100% employer paid medical/dental/vision PPO for me and my family

Any chance y'all need a seasoned Texas-based environmental attorney . . .

[TigerIsBack]

5 years in Biglaw, specialty practice

Base: 180k
Bonus: 15%
RSU: ~13k per year
PTO: 9 days

Thoughts?

$220k all in seems pretty solid. Any idea the hours breakdown (i.e., is this in-house M&A with evenings and weekends or more governance and 9-6 hours)?

Assuming it's not much work on nights and weekends, comp seems pretty solid, but not so great that you couldn't try to negotiate for more. PTO seems pretty low, but do you increase to 15-20 days of PTO after your first couple years or remain at 9 for the foreseeable future?

PTO increases after the first year, and they said there’s not much work on nights and weekends. Where would you negotiate for more? RSU? Bonus? Thanks!

For me (and I would guess with most people) I think the preference would be to have the highest base salary you can possibly get. But if you're pretty comfortable living on $180k, then you could say you were hoping to be in the low $200s for base but are open to increasing the all-in comp via other alternatives (RSUs, higher bonus, signing bonus, etc.) and see what they come back with. Or just try to push for the higher base and let them decide if they want to come back with alternatives.

One caveat is if you are super comfortable living on $180k and think this is a company that will experience massive growth then I guess maybe push for RSUs???