Career Associates Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have met a number of associates who have been associates for way more than 9 years. I was curious how viable this career path is, and whether most take paycuts after the 9th year. I'd imagine that they are inevitably linked to particular partners who like working with them, but was also wondering whether these individuals have any bargaining power. Is the 15-year associate getting lateral offers, and will the partner's eventual retiring mean that they will eventually be laid off?

[Anonymous User]

I have met a number of associates who have been associates for way more than 9 years. I was curious how viable this career path is, and whether most take paycuts after the 9th year. I'd imagine that they are inevitably linked to particular partners who like working with them, but was also wondering whether these individuals have any bargaining power. Is the 15-year associate getting lateral offers, and will the partner's eventual retiring mean that they will eventually be laid off?

I doubt they take pay cuts, and I am sure their rate continues to increase. At my firm, if you stay an associate, your salary stays at the 8th year level, and you usually get the same bonuses as 8th years. Some people become "Counsel" and salary is negotiated - from what I have heard it is much more than senior associate salary, but less than partners (obviously).

[Anonymous User]

What do Of Counsels make

[TLSModBot]

What do Of Counsels make

335K.

Every single counsel of all experience at any firm in any market makes exactly this amount.

[BigZuck]

What do Of Counsels make

A negotiated amount that is more than associates and less than partners

It just so happens that this number is 335K every single time

[NotMyRealName09]

What do Of Counsels make

A negotiated amount that is more than associates and less than partners

It just so happens that this number is 335K every single time

Can confirm this is the case in the Detroit market. Remarkably uniform across various practices and locales.

[Anonymous User]

I am hoping to become of counsel. $335k without the stresses of partnership sounds great. I am also a weirdo that likes being a biglaw associate.

[rpupkin]

What do Of Counsels make

335K.

Every single counsel of all experience at any firm in any market makes exactly this amount.

It's ABA-mandated. All firms with over 100 attorneys must pay Of Counsels $335/yr, including bonuses. Some firms get creative--like they'll pay a $250K base and a $85K bonus. But no matter what, the total annual compensation can be no more--and no less--than $335K.

[Anonymous User]

Every of counsel I've worked with wound up becoming partner somewhere else, obviously because of working with me.

[rpupkin]

I am hoping to become of counsel. $335k without the stresses of partnership sounds great. I am also a weirdo that likes being a biglaw associate.

How long have you been a biglaw associate?

[BigZuck]

I am hoping to become of counsel. $335k without the stresses of partnership sounds great. I am also a weirdo that likes being a biglaw associate.

How long have you been a biglaw associate?

Longer than being a summer associate, not long enough to be of counsel

[TLSModBot]

What do Of Counsels make

335K.

Every single counsel of all experience at any firm in any market makes exactly this amount.

It's ABA-mandated. All firms with over 100 attorneys must pay Of Counsels $335/yr, including bonuses. Some firms get creative--like they'll pay a $250K base and a $85K bonus. But no matter what, the total annual compensation can be no more--and no less--than $335K.

Whoa, I thought it was just part of the Cravath model all firms scrupulously followed for the past 90 years. You learn something new every day, I guess.

[Tiago Splitter]

What do Of Counsels make

335K.

Every single counsel of all experience at any firm in any market makes exactly this amount.

It's ABA-mandated. All firms with over 100 attorneys must pay Of Counsels $335/yr, including bonuses. Some firms get creative--like they'll pay a $250K base and a $85K bonus. But no matter what, the total annual compensation can be no more--and no less--than $335K.

Whoa, I thought it was just part of the Cravath model all firms scrupulously followed for the past 90 years. You learn something new every day, I guess.

Whether due to an accounting error or real impropriety Dewey was apparently paying counsels 353k. The rest of the story sort of explains itself.

[star fox]

Is $335K rich thought?

[Anonymous User]

Is $335K rich thought?

Depending on the stability of the job and market, it's very good. As I get older I realize the trick is to get enough money to generate sizable dividends, which are taxed at a much lower rate than income. It seems nearly impossible to get rich based on income given taxation in our country. The only way to get rich is to have a lot of money, and not do any work.

[Ken Kesey]

Does someone have a source for that or I am I not getting an obvious joke? ABA dictating salary doesn't make sense.

[rpupkin]

Does someone have a source for that or I am I not getting an obvious joke? ABA dictating salary doesn't make sense.

It's not technically a dictate; it's advisory. But all firms adhere to the $335K/yr rule, as far as I know.

[clshopeful]

Does someone have a source for that or I am I not getting an obvious joke? ABA dictating salary doesn't make sense.

It's not technically a dictate; it's advisory. But all firms adhere to the $335K/yr rule, as far as I know.

335k is a joke -- first guy to bring it up was trolling the guy who said 'how much do of counsel make' since that is such a "it depends" question

[kaiser]

lol the fact that so many people don't even bother using their own common sense is equal parts amusing and troubling.

[Anonymous User]

Does someone have a source for that or I am I not getting an obvious joke? ABA dictating salary doesn't make sense.

It's not technically a dictate; it's advisory. But all firms adhere to the $335K/yr rule, as far as I know.

335k is a joke -- first guy to bring it up was trolling the guy who said 'how much do of counsel make' since that is such a "it depends" question

original anon - so how much do they actually make?

[rpupkin]

335k is a joke -- first guy to bring it up was trolling the guy who said 'how much do of counsel make' since that is such a "it depends" question

original anon - so how much do they actually make?

If you want a serious answer, market pay for OF Counsel (in big law) is tied to a formula with a baseline assumption of 2,000 hours.

The formula is:

$200K base + (HOURS [2,000] * 67.5)

[Anonymous User]

When is the last time Of Counsel comp got raised?

[rpupkin]

When is the last time Of Counsel comp got raised?

2014. For complicated reasons, there is an inverse relationship between associate-salary pressure and of-counsel-salary pressure. When associates salaries are skyrocketing, Of Counsel salaries tend to stay stagnant. But when associate salaries are flat--as they've been since 2007--Of Counsel salaries increase. This is especially true at V30 firms.

[Abbie Doobie]

my firm has been phasing out the Of Counsel positions and replacing them with At Counsel. think of it as the counsel version of a contract attorney. paid by the hour with little/no benefits. pretty scary stuff

[Anonymous User]

When is the last time Of Counsel comp got raised?

2014. For complicated reasons, there is an inverse relationship between associate-salary pressure and of-counsel-salary pressure. When associates salaries are skyrocketing, Of Counsel salaries tend to stay stagnant. But when associate salaries are flat--as they've been since 2007--Of Counsel salaries increase. This is especially true at V30 firms.

Ah ok thanks for that. Any info on Of Counsel Comp at V48 firms?