Tell Me Why I Shouldn't Become a Troll Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a biglaw associate. I defend patent troll lawsuits and bogus consumer protection lawsuits. I'm beginning to realize that, with some research, I could think of 100 companies to sue for small violations of this or that, or I could buy a few patents and sue everybody and see what sticks. Settle early.

Do you see any problem with this business model? It seems low stakes/investment, high return. What am I missing?

[FairchildFLT]

Me as your secretary.

[Nekrowizard]

How much money can you make doing this? This somehow has the feel of an idea that sounds pretty good and simple, but has some sort of hidden fatal flaw.

[homestyle28]

I'm a biglaw associate. I defend patent troll lawsuits and bogus consumer protection lawsuits. I'm beginning to realize that, with some research, I could think of 100 companies to sue for small violations of this or that, or I could buy a few patents and sue everybody and see what sticks. Settle early.

Do you see any problem with this business model? It seems low stakes/investment, high return. What am I missing?

clients with standing seems like the most obvious thing. That and dignity, but can't buy a summer house with dignity.

[totesTheGoat]

I'm a biglaw associate. I defend patent troll lawsuits and bogus consumer protection lawsuits. I'm beginning to realize that, with some research, I could think of 100 companies to sue for small violations of this or that, or I could buy a few patents and sue everybody and see what sticks. Settle early.

Do you see any problem with this business model? It seems low stakes/investment, high return. What am I missing?

IPRs are still in their infancy. If I, as a lawyer representing MegaConglomerate, Inc., started having you swarm around me like a little mosquito, I'd just use my money to get your patents invalidated through IPR. There are some companies and non-profits that have taken this stance because they don't like being messed with by patent trolls. See EFF and NewEgg.

I think that the number of companies that stop knuckling under is going to increase as more IPR victories (like EFF's podcasting victory) come out.

[gk101]

I'm a biglaw associate. I defend patent troll lawsuits and bogus consumer protection lawsuits. I'm beginning to realize that, with some research, I could think of 100 companies to sue for small violations of this or that, or I could buy a few patents and sue everybody and see what sticks. Settle early.

Do you see any problem with this business model? It seems low stakes/investment, high return. What am I missing?

IPRs are still in their infancy. If I, as a lawyer representing MegaConglomerate, Inc., started having you swarm around me like a little mosquito, I'd just use my money to get your patents invalidated through IPR. There are some companies and non-profits that have taken this stance because they don't like being messed with by patent trolls. See EFF and NewEgg.

I think that the number of companies that stop knuckling under is going to increase as more IPR victories (like EFF's podcasting victory) come out.

it's expensive to file and litigate IPR's. just price your demands accordingly OP

[totesTheGoat]

Going rate for a "shakedown" license is $50k. Most big companies will write a check and count their blessings if you ask much less than that. If you start getting more than that (or weird-ass royalty stuff), they'll ignore you.

The biggest thing you have going in your favor is that determinations made in IPRs are binding in district courts. Most companies aren't willing to go through a "half-assed" proceeding that could preclude them from asserting an invalidity defense in district court.

[Desert Fox]

Going rate for a "shakedown" license is $50k. Most big companies will write a check and count their blessings if you ask much less than that. If you start getting more than that (or weird-ass royalty stuff), they'll ignore you.

The biggest thing you have going in your favor is that determinations made in IPRs are binding in district courts. Most companies aren't willing to go through a "half-assed" proceeding that could preclude them from asserting an invalidity defense in district court.

Yea they are willing to do an IPR (especially if they have system claim prior art too). But IPRs still cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like someone said, just adjust your demands accordingly.

The big problem is cash to acquire patents and cash to fund litigation should it arise. Experts and shit are expensive.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

I've thought through the IPR stuff, too, and agree. Or even Alice motions -- probably still worth a 20k settlement, right? If I get a patent and know it well, I can sue 50 companies averaging probably like 5 hours per complaint.

To person who mentioned standing -- right, one hurdle is finding clients. I assume one or two contacts who are willing to put their name on a complaint, and go out and buy the shitty product or whatever, would be enough to surpass that hurdle. Another thought is suing in multiple jurisdictions -- getting local counsel and/or pro hac vice applications could be a pain, so I'd probably want to mostly stick to local courts.

As to dignity, right, that's the idea. And in any event, most of these companies aren't doing us any favors -- they're trying to get rich by exploiting others, too. Fair play.

[sundance95]

I'm a biglaw associate. I defend patent troll lawsuits and bogus consumer protection lawsuits. I'm beginning to realize that, with some research, I could think of 100 companies to sue for small violations of this or that, or I could buy a few patents and sue everybody and see what sticks. Settle early.

Do you see any problem with this business model? It seems low stakes/investment, high return. What am I missing?

clients with standing seems like the most obvious thing. That and dignity, but can't buy a summer house with dignity.

OP said he's a biglaw associate--I'm not sure what dignity has to do with it. Creating a NPE and obtaining some self-actualization would probably be a step up in the personal dignity department.

But yeah, clients with standing is the issue. Buying patents and really stretching them brings some risk post-Octane, but you have the subject-matter expertise to assess that risk.

ETA: yeah, experts are a good point too.

[totesTheGoat]

OP here.

I've thought through the IPR stuff, too, and agree. Or even Alice motions -- probably still worth a 20k settlement, right? If I get a patent and know it well, I can sue 50 companies averaging probably like 5 hours per complaint.

Why sue? Why not just send cease & desist letters accompanied with a licensing offer? You can still sue if somebody doesn't take you seriously, but it costs pennies to draw up a C&D letter, and you don't have the standing issue. Some states are cracking down on this, but especially if you know your patent well and pick appropriate targets, you should be able to send a C&D in good faith. http://www.insidecounsel.com/2014/07/09 ... e-and-desi I think the risk of receiving a DJ in reply is relatively low if you do your research about the industry.

I'll also add that I don't think of all NPEs as trolls. I think the trolls are the ones who try to assert shit patents in overbroad scopes to try to make money off of technologies obviously not contemplated by the inventor. NPEs include universities, patent pools, patent aggregators (RPX and the like), patent holding companies for large corporations, and a thousand other permutations. Not all of them are trolls.

[Anonymous User]

OP again.

Interested to hear if anyone has input on cases under various consumer statutes, so avoiding some of the patent specific stuff.

Person who mentioned experts: no, my cases would never get that far. I'd voluntarily dismiss before then. Same goes for receiving a DJ -- if someone wants to spend the money to pursue a DJ against me, I'll cave.

Looking for 5-50k pre-discovery settlements.

Can someone elaborate more on the standing issue? Do you just mean identifying clients?

[Desert Fox]

OP again.

Interested to hear if anyone has input on cases under various consumer statutes, so avoiding some of the patent specific stuff.

Person who mentioned experts: no, my cases would never get that far. I'd voluntarily dismiss before then. Same goes for receiving a DJ -- if someone wants to spend the money to pursue a DJ against me, I'll cave.

Looking for 5-50k pre-discovery settlements.

Can someone elaborate more on the standing issue? Do you just mean identifying clients?

One problem is that if you have a trail of just backing it up every time you get a DJ, you'll get a bunch of DJs instead of settlements.

The guys I've come up against, keep the case going, just very slowly.

[Abbie Doobie]

here's a better idea: (1) go on shark tank and threaten to IPR the patents covering products that the investors invested in, (2) offer to leave the patents of the investor with the highest offer alone as your business idea, (3) let the bidding war beginnnnnnnnn

[r6_philly]

OP, send me a msg if you are not trolling about trolling. It is something I have always pondered about but I now actually have the capacity to do it.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

I've thought through the IPR stuff, too, and agree. Or even Alice motions -- probably still worth a 20k settlement, right? If I get a patent and know it well, I can sue 50 companies averaging probably like 5 hours per complaint.

To person who mentioned standing -- right, one hurdle is finding clients. I assume one or two contacts who are willing to put their name on a complaint, and go out and buy the shitty product or whatever, would be enough to surpass that hurdle. Another thought is suing in multiple jurisdictions -- getting local counsel and/or pro hac vice applications could be a pain, so I'd probably want to mostly stick to local courts.

As to dignity, right, that's the idea. And in any event, most of these companies aren't doing us any favors -- they're trying to get rich by exploiting others, too. Fair play.

So, I know nothing about litigation and even less about IP, but isn't there some sort of rule against a lawyer getting clients to do something to create a cause of action (or maybe it's paying a client to do something that would give them a claim)? I vaguely remember stumbling across something like this while blindly fumbling around westlaw writing a memo or something during law school.

Am I completely imagining this, or is there a way around it?

[westinghouse60]

OP here.

I've thought through the IPR stuff, too, and agree. Or even Alice motions -- probably still worth a 20k settlement, right? If I get a patent and know it well, I can sue 50 companies averaging probably like 5 hours per complaint.

To person who mentioned standing -- right, one hurdle is finding clients. I assume one or two contacts who are willing to put their name on a complaint, and go out and buy the shitty product or whatever, would be enough to surpass that hurdle. Another thought is suing in multiple jurisdictions -- getting local counsel and/or pro hac vice applications could be a pain, so I'd probably want to mostly stick to local courts.

As to dignity, right, that's the idea. And in any event, most of these companies aren't doing us any favors -- they're trying to get rich by exploiting others, too. Fair play.

So, I know nothing about litigation and even less about IP, but isn't there some sort of rule against a lawyer getting clients to do something to create a cause of action (or maybe it's paying a client to do something that would give them a claim)? I vaguely remember stumbling across something like this while blindly fumbling around westlaw writing a memo or something during law school.

Am I completely imagining this, or is there a way around it?

Oops accidentally posted anon out of old habit, haven't been to this site in years.

[r6_philly]

The better play might be to evaluate and purchase patents first. It's difficult to work with small inventor clients for many reasons. If you are taking the case on contingency you should want to control litigation. So if it's an investment for the firm, buying the patent first would avoid many client related issues.