How the Fuck Do You Get Billable Hours? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Seriously, how the fuck do you get billable hours? I missed my firm's billable target (1800) by almost 300 hours last year but felt like I spent a ton of time at the office and made a lot of effort recruiting work.

I talked to a more experienced associate and he said it seems like I'm stuck getting miscellaneous assignments rather than working files. In other words, I fill in the gap by drafting some motion or researching some issue, but I never get my hands completely on a file and thus lack follow up work that will dramatically increase billable totals.

I'm in a smaller firm (35 or so attorneys), so we're not talking some big law office where doing miscellaneous stuff might be more expected.

I had a year end review and was told to follow up more, but I did that in January to an annoying degree (made a spreadsheet of every file I've worked on, checked dockets and checked our document system, tried following up on anything still relevant) and still only billed 124 hours last month.

I'm just at a complete loss and frustrated as hell, because I'm at the office probably 55-60 hours a week, always knocking on doors, and I'm not even close to 1800 hours.

Any help?

[Tls2016]

Are other people from your year struggling with hours? Or if you are the only one, what about the year ahead of you?
It sounds like no one is staffing you on their cases.

[Anonymous User]

This happened to me. Billed around 100 hours 3 months in a row. At the end of the 3rd month they told me the firm was experiencing problems and I should find new work if I could because they can't guarantee that they are keeping me past the end of the year.

[84651846190]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

[Anonymous User]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

There definitely isn't an oversupply of associates--just 5 out of the 35 or so attorneys are associates. But the big issue is that probably 10-12 partners are retiring within 2-3 years and nobody knows WTF is going on with them. 90% of them have a reputation for not delegating any work at all and I can't seem to get any work from them, ever.

[Anonymous User]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

What if you're a 1st year? It is difficult to lateral as a first year without looking like you got pushed out, no?

[dixiecupdrinking]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

What if you're a 1st year? It is difficult to lateral as a first year without looking like you got pushed out, no?

It doesn't hurt to try. Better than not looking for a new job and then, you know, actually getting pushed out because there's no work.

[Anonymous User]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

What if you're a 1st year? It is difficult to lateral as a first year without looking like you got pushed out, no?

It doesn't hurt to try. Better than not looking for a new job and then, you know, actually getting pushed out because there's no work.

OP here. I've have this mindset for a few months now. I've actually reverted to signing up for the criminal appointment list (our firm used to mandate it for new associates but stopped in the nineties, but a lot of partners liked the idea of reviving this). I've also been reading books like "Solo By Choice" and all that jazz to maybe get ready to start my own firm.

Wouldn't be easy, obviously, but my GF and I have considerable savings and I know a few other solos in the area that would be open to sharing office space.

That's still a backup option, because my firm has a great reputation and I want to make it work. It's just that I'm trying and nothing seems to be working.


So aside from everything I just mentioned, can anyone actually get to some pointers about getting work?

[Anonymous User]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

What if you're a 1st year? It is difficult to lateral as a first year without looking like you got pushed out, no?

I know first years who didn't like their firm and decided to move without being pushed out or they wanted to change locations.

It's better to start looking now than to wait until the ball drops.

[Anonymous User]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

What if you're a 1st year? It is difficult to lateral as a first year without looking like you got pushed out, no?

I know first years who didn't like their firm and decided to move without being pushed out or they wanted to change locations.

It's better to start looking now than to wait until the ball drops.

How common is this?

Asking because it may be my choice of action

[englawyer]

If the partners are tending to do cases where they do everything themselves, that probably indicates you need to start getting your own cases ASAP. Figure out how those partners get new work and see if you can get a piece of that action.

You are in a much different environment than biglaw, where the standard practice is to staff cases with very few partners and a decent number of associates.

[Anonymous User]

This happened to me. Billed around 100 hours 3 months in a row. At the end of the 3rd month they told me the firm was experiencing problems and I should find new work if I could because they can't guarantee that they are keeping me past the end of the year.

How big was the firm? This is my situation. Granted I just finished my stub, but this worries me.

[Anonymous User]

Reach out to people you like, and tell them you'd like to work with them on something. Even if you have a healthy amount of work you'd still work better with some people than others so would want to work with them more.

[lawschoolftw]

OP, is there someone who hired you in particular? I work at a similar size shop and when my work flow starts to slow I go to the partner directly responsible for hiring me who will either give me work or push others to do so.

[los blancos]

This is very common. It means your practice group is slow or people prefer working with other associates (and there is an oversupply of associates in your practice area). Try to make your work less shitty (if applicable) and/or look for a new firm.

There definitely isn't an oversupply of associates--just 5 out of the 35 or so attorneys are associates. But the big issue is that probably 10-12 partners are retiring within 2-3 years and nobody knows WTF is going on with them. 90% of them have a reputation for not delegating any work at all and I can't seem to get any work from them, ever.

You touched on this in the last sentence of this post and englawyer did further down the line - the ratio means little if anything.

Supply is relative - if partners hoard 100% of the work because they're not bringing enough work in the door, even one associate is by definition an oversupply.

[Anonymous User]

OP, is there someone who hired you in particular? I work at a similar size shop and when my work flow starts to slow I go to the partner directly responsible for hiring me who will either give me work or push others to do so.

Yes, the partner who does all the ERISA work here basically brought me on to inherit his practice. He has two huge insurance clients that are basically his entire book and he hired me to throw that in my lap. "Great," I thought, but it's been a struggle.

The work just stopped coming towards fall of last year because we got completely slammed, and the partner basically admitted he was overwhelmed and didn't have time to delegate. More work has come at the start of this year and that's encouraging, but he plans on retiring at the end of this year no matter what and there is a 0% chance I'm ready and able to take on his practice full stop.

A big issue, according to him, is that these are "big city" clients and the partner doesn't trust me to think like a "big city" lawyer. For example, I just responded to requests for admissions and objected to probably 20 of 25 and admitted to the other 5 (we're talking things like "admit the decedent died"). Partner pulled me in a conference room and just tore me a new one for 45 minutes as to how I couldn't object to everything.

I don't know. Maybe I'm not cut out for this shit. But I'm trying and failing to get work, and that's frustrating.

[Tls2016]

OP, is there someone who hired you in particular? I work at a similar size shop and when my work flow starts to slow I go to the partner directly responsible for hiring me who will either give me work or push others to do so.

Yes, the partner who does all the ERISA work here basically brought me on to inherit his practice. He has two huge insurance clients that are basically his entire book and he hired me to throw that in my lap. "Great," I thought, but it's been a struggle.

The work just stopped coming towards fall of last year because we got completely slammed, and the partner basically admitted he was overwhelmed and didn't have time to delegate. More work has come at the start of this year and that's encouraging, but he plans on retiring at the end of this year no matter what and there is a 0% chance I'm ready and able to take on his practice full stop.

A big issue, according to him, is that these are "big city" clients and the partner doesn't trust me to think like a "big city" lawyer. For example, I just responded to requests for admissions and objected to probably 20 of 25 and admitted to the other 5 (we're talking things like "admit the decedent died"). Partner pulled me in a conference room and just tore me a new one for 45 minutes as to how I couldn't object to everything.

I don't know. Maybe I'm not cut out for this shit. But I'm trying and failing to get work, and that's frustrating.

OP: if the guy who hired you isn't training you or giving you work, will you have a job after he leaves? It's not realistic that companies would transfer work from a senior, experienced partner to a first year.

But if the partner is yelling at you, it sounds like they have issues its your work product. I don't understand what thinking like a big city lawyer even means.

If you want to do ERISA, I would learn as much as I can about it. If you aren't getting work, at least take time to learn. I would learn as much as I could about any practice area. If you are thinking of opening your own firm, start looking for clients now and find your own work.

The only other thing I can think of is to talk to ogre associates and see how they get work and how they are successful.

[lawschoolftw]

OP, is there someone who hired you in particular? I work at a similar size shop and when my work flow starts to slow I go to the partner directly responsible for hiring me who will either give me work or push others to do so.

Yes, the partner who does all the ERISA work here basically brought me on to inherit his practice. He has two huge insurance clients that are basically his entire book and he hired me to throw that in my lap. "Great," I thought, but it's been a struggle.

The work just stopped coming towards fall of last year because we got completely slammed, and the partner basically admitted he was overwhelmed and didn't have time to delegate. More work has come at the start of this year and that's encouraging, but he plans on retiring at the end of this year no matter what and there is a 0% chance I'm ready and able to take on his practice full stop.

A big issue, according to him, is that these are "big city" clients and the partner doesn't trust me to think like a "big city" lawyer. For example, I just responded to requests for admissions and objected to probably 20 of 25 and admitted to the other 5 (we're talking things like "admit the decedent died"). Partner pulled me in a conference room and just tore me a new one for 45 minutes as to how I couldn't object to everything.

I don't know. Maybe I'm not cut out for this shit. But I'm trying and failing to get work, and that's frustrating.

Oye. OP, to be blunt, start looking to lateral now. If you're not getting work and the person who brought you in isn't feeding you work, it doesn't seem like it'll be a good fit.

[rpupkin]

A big issue, according to him, is that these are "big city" clients and the partner doesn't trust me to think like a "big city" lawyer. For example, I just responded to requests for admissions and objected to probably 20 of 25 and admitted to the other 5 (we're talking things like "admit the decedent died"). Partner pulled me in a conference room and just tore me a new one for 45 minutes as to how I couldn't object to everything.

I'm a "big city" lawyer, and I thought this was going to head in the direction of the partner yelling at you for not objecting to everything.

I agree with those saying you should look to lateral. This just isn't a good situation for you.

[Anonymous User]

You may want to make it known that you want the work. It's possible that people aren't giving you work, because they feel awkward about approaching you. A majority of the work I get starts with the words, "I'm sorry," because the people know how boring first year work is, and all feigning interest does is make you look crazy. If you communicate that you need the work and like working with the person then they will think of you when something comes in.

[Anonymous User]

A big issue, according to him, is that these are "big city" clients and the partner doesn't trust me to think like a "big city" lawyer. For example, I just responded to requests for admissions and objected to probably 20 of 25 and admitted to the other 5 (we're talking things like "admit the decedent died"). Partner pulled me in a conference room and just tore me a new one for 45 minutes as to how I couldn't object to everything.

I'm a "big city" lawyer, and I thought this was going to head in the direction of the partner yelling at you for not objecting to everything.

I agree with those saying you should look to lateral. This just isn't a good situation for you.

Sorry for wording this badly--he was pissed that I didn't find a way to object to every single request.

What kills me about this is that I don't get how he (or the firm) thinks I'm going to be able to do this (inheriting this book eleven months from now) without any mentorship whatsoever. Other assignments from seemingly every practice area are just thrown my way and then I never see them again. The ERISA stuff I'm working on gets torn to shreds, puts the partner in a bad mood, and then it's two weeks before I see any other work.

I understand law is a "sink or swim" world and that I shouldn't expect a partner to hold my hand and show me every little thing; but this seems like a unique situation that calls for a more mentor/apprenticeship type situation.

This partner that brought me on, though, has a reputation with not being satisfied with anybody's work. The associate hired before me (who is still here) was brought on to help him out too and that lasted about eighteen months. The other associate is still here though and up for partnership consideration this year.

Typing this all out just makes me think that this firm might not be the right fit for me at this current time.

[Anonymous User]

Wait why are you doing discovery responses as an ERISA lawyer?

[Anonymous User]

It seems like there isn't enough work to go around. I had this experience when I lateralled from one firm to another. Associates just did random crap and weren't on teams. Crappy. Get out ASAP.

[Anonymous User]

Had something like this happen to me happen in BigLaw. Lateraled to a firm, work dried up about 8 months in, 3 associates above me left and I was stuck on things semi-outside of my practice. I got out as fast as I could.

[Anonymous User]

Wait why are you doing discovery responses as an ERISA lawyer?

Bad faith lawsuit.

I spent the weekend digesting what was said in this thread and decided that I might as well try a little harder here before I completely give up and start looking elsewhere. I found a pretty good ERISA handbook (300+ pages) and came into the office and organized the shit out of forms that the partner has done. Now I have 5-6 interpleader complaints, 5-6 discovery responses, 5-6 answers to complaints, etc. to refer to each time one of these comes along my way. Going to review all of this and organize it even more and hope that helps me get on track.

If not, I'm saving $700/paycheck in straight cash right now and will be using that as a buffer in case shit hits the fan here.