Getting no work - what to do Forum

[Anonymous User]

In September I started as a first year in a small transactional group of a Vault firm satellite office, and I have gotten very, very little work (it's not me, it's the group structure/market forces). It's both boring and anxiety inducing, and I would appreciate some advice on how to deal with this and move forward. As far as goals go, I want to be in NYC as soon as possible (family & SO there) and I need to stay in big law for several years for loan repayment (no-interest loan from parents I would like to pay back in ten years).

[Anonymous User]

Dawg you're not alone. I've been billing like 100 hours a month since starting in the fall as well. It sucks, not really much we can do about it.

[lymenheimer]

Pretty sure I've read loads of times that stub year doesn't matter (as long as you do your work) and that you should enjoy these light loads while you can...?

[Desert Fox]

Pretty sure I've read loads of times that stub year doesn't matter (as long as you do your work) and that you should enjoy these light loads while you can...?

Not a stub year anymore.

It took til April for me to get fully staffed on a case and get going.

I'd keep asking for work, do some probono to juice your hours. Maybe volunteer for big doc reivew for the lit group even though you a trannie. You don't want to be the dood who billed no hours until April, then billed 200 a month and still gets no bonused.

You can also look to lateraling to NY.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure I've read loads of times that stub year doesn't matter (as long as you do your work) and that you should enjoy these light loads while you can...?

Stub year's over.

OP - Have you reached out to people in your group, both in your office and in the other offices, particularly the HQ office? That would be my first step.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry, double post.

[lymenheimer]

Pretty sure I've read loads of times that stub year doesn't matter (as long as you do your work) and that you should enjoy these light loads while you can...?

Not a stub year anymore.

It took til April for me to get fully staffed on a case and get going.

I'd keep asking for work, do some probono to juice your hours. Maybe volunteer for big doc reivew for the lit group even though you a trannie. You don't want to be the dood who billed no hours until April, then billed 200 a month and still gets no bonused.

You can also look to lateraling to NY.

Yea. The "since i started working" was where i was thinking the concern was. My b.

Eta: also havent had to write the date yet, so im still halfway sittin in 2015.

[Danger Zone]

Dawg you're not alone. I've been billing like 100 hours a month since starting in the fall as well. It sucks, not really much we can do about it.

Same. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they realize transactional doesn't need this many associates right now and the ax falls on me.

[Desert Fox]

Dawg you're not alone. I've been billing like 100 hours a month since starting in the fall as well. It sucks, not really much we can do about it.

Same. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they realize transactional doesn't need this many associates right now and the ax falls on me.

That's not really how it works. They need a pipeline of talent. So they ax olds who are hogging junior work.

[Apple.Sauce]

Nice to know I'm not alone. Billed about 300 hours in 4 months during stub year. Then, I started out with two 40 hours week in 2016. I thought I had finally broken through and would be consistently busy. This week - I've billed about 12 hours so far.

[Danger Zone]

Dawg you're not alone. I've been billing like 100 hours a month since starting in the fall as well. It sucks, not really much we can do about it.

Same. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they realize transactional doesn't need this many associates right now and the ax falls on me.

That's not really how it works. They need a pipeline of talent. So they ax olds who are hogging junior work.

But getting no work also means I'm getting no experience, so I don't really know what I'm doing at all. Fake it till ya make it, I guess is the lesson?

[Apple.Sauce]

I still find it hard to believe they are paying me this much to sit around all day. I ask for work all the time - almost to the point of being annoying. One partner told me he likes my attitude and the fact that I ask for work. But, at the end of the day, I'm sure he'd prefer production and "a great attitude."

Do people actually reach out to partners in other satellite offices whom they do not know? I think about doing that sometimes, but I don't want to seem desperate.

[Anonymous User]

I was in the same situation and below is how I handled it. Sort of in order of priority, but not hard and fast rules:

1. Continue asking around the office within your office. Don't worry about seeming desperate. Don't drop in every day, but consistent enough to show that you are hungry for work, and eager to help.

2. Ask partners or senior associates in your office about group-members from other offices that you can reach out to. In my group, we often work with lawyers from other offices, so it was no problem to reach out to partners in any US office and talk about what they have going on. That way, I could get my name out there if they need help with something (and sometimes they would rope me right into some billable work).

3. Seek out pro bono opportunities. If you are in biglaw, there is no shortage of pro bono work to go around. Speak with your pro bono coordinator about getting more involved with pro bono work. The big plus is that, in almost every firm, a big chunk of pro bono can count toward billable hours. So don't hesitate to take on pro bono work if you are struggling to find billable work.

4. Seek out non-billable work opportunities. For example, do some research on article ideas and pitch the ideas to partners in your group. Show that, even during slower work times, you want to keep learning, keep contributing, etc. Writing is a great way to spend your down time.

[Apple.Sauce]

Great ideas. Thanks, anon.

[Anonymous User]

I've billed at least 200 per month despite consistently screwing up. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You could try going to trainings, and feigning interest in the subject. Transactional practice is broad, and people might not know you want to work with them. You could also try to talk to somebody you're friendly with about getting you work.

[WestOfTheRest]

I had this problem in my first year as well, but there's some ways to counteract negative criticism based on hours come review time. First, make sure the work you do get is done well. Your sample size of projects is going to be small, so you want to make sure you're getting good feedback on all of them. If you're really busy busting your ass and you have one negative review, it probably won't sink you, but if you don't have much work it could. Second, constantly email people for work and check in with them occasionally if they don't have work the first time. This is critical because your reviewers are going to want to know why your hours are low and what you have done to get work. Trust me, they know your hours are low because of circumstances beyond your control, but this is a game they will play.

Also important, make sure you are billing all your matters properly. Find ways to "add value" to the work product, which should help keep your hours up. Some good pointers I got while my hours were low were: (1) re-proof documents after you've sent them to seniors, since they won't read the document right away anyways (note that you should do this IN ADDITION to carefully checking the first draft); (2) make sure you read all the emails you receive on a matter, even if you don't think they are directed at you specifically and bill time for reviewing those emails; and (3) look for other ways to add value to projects and suggest them to the senior and say you'll take a first swing at it.

Remember that billing too much isn't an issue, partners will just write-off your time if they see fit (just make sure you're billing honestly).

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks for the replies. It's good to hear that my situation isn't that unique. I'm definitely still asking for work regularly and will continue to do so, but the group is small enough that everyone knows that I'm not busy. I haven't reached out to partners at other offices, and I'm not sure how I would do that. Unfortunately my practice group doesn't really exist on its own outside of this office, so it's not like there are a bunch of partners doing the same work spread out at other offices. Any ideas?

Not a stub year anymore.

It took til April for me to get fully staffed on a case and get going.

I'd keep asking for work, do some probono to juice your hours. Maybe volunteer for big doc reivew for the lit group even though you a trannie. You don't want to be the dood who billed no hours until April, then billed 200 a month and still gets no bonused.

You can also look to lateraling to NY.

Good to know. I will try to get some pro bono, but the doc review idea won't work. How do I start looking into lateraling to NYC? Just scan my school's simplicity and cruise firm websites?

[kaiser]

Scan the legal job sites, go to firm websites themselves, maybe consider using a recruiter, etc. Not too hard to keep track of openings.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks for the replies. It's good to hear that my situation isn't that unique. I'm definitely still asking for work regularly and will continue to do so, but the group is small enough that everyone knows that I'm not busy. I haven't reached out to partners at other offices, and I'm not sure how I would do that. Unfortunately my practice group doesn't really exist on its own outside of this office, so it's not like there are a bunch of partners doing the same work spread out at other offices. Any ideas?

Not a stub year anymore.

It took til April for me to get fully staffed on a case and get going.

I'd keep asking for work, do some probono to juice your hours. Maybe volunteer for big doc reivew for the lit group even though you a trannie. You don't want to be the dood who billed no hours until April, then billed 200 a month and still gets no bonused.

You can also look to lateraling to NY.

Good to know. I will try to get some pro bono, but the doc review idea won't work. How do I start looking into lateraling to NYC? Just scan my school's simplicity and cruise firm websites?

If your group is small it's likely this is just randomness. Everyone was slow by around Christmas, because deals don't get done then, and the markets sucked this past month. There's no guarantee that if you leave business won't come into your old firm, and your new firm will be in a dry spot.

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

[TLSModBot]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

No? If it's based in legit interactions with others than I'd be worried for your job. If it's based on nothing at all then you're paranoid/neurotic.

[kaiser]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

Why do you feel like everyone hates you? Is this your first professional job? I don't ask that in a condescending way. I ask because many young people starting out, who have never before worked in a professional office environment, can have a bit of a hard time making the distinction between what is personal and what is just business. Do you feel like they hate your work? Your attitude? Personality? Need to be a bit more specific.

[Desert Fox]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

No? If it's based in legit interactions with others than I'd be worried for your job. If it's based on nothing at all then you're paranoid/neurotic.

I bet like 60% of associates feel that way regularly. 25% probably feel it all the time.

Between actively aggressive partners and passive aggressive partners who will just ghost ride you for minor fuck ups. It can take a toll on a persons self esteem.

[Danger Zone]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

Like df said, I doubt that's an uncommon feeling among junior associates, but you gotta get over it.

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal to feel like everybody hates you, and you're going to get fired?

Why do you feel like everyone hates you? Is this your first professional job? I don't ask that in a condescending way. I ask because many young people starting out, who have never before worked in a professional office environment, can have a bit of a hard time making the distinction between what is personal and what is just business. Do you feel like they hate your work? Your attitude? Personality? Need to be a bit more specific.

Not everyone, a few people. Not 1st job. Body language. Not directly comparable, but I was trained to read body language in the army and have helped people train dogs using body language. There are a few relatively junior people I've had negative experiences working with, and while they are friendly, their body language is aggressively hostile. Lawyers have poor social intelligence so don't realize they're showing their hand.