What's going on in Texas? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone care to share what's going on? read in another thread some firms might be laying off and no offering more people than usual....

[BigZuck]

Anyone care to share what's going on? read in another thread some firms might be laying off and no offering more people than usual....

Can you link to that thread?

[Johann]

Yeah plenty of firms last year restructured classes from Houston to NYC. I think more of the same this year and more no offers/firings.

[BigZuck]

Yeah plenty of firms last year restructured classes from Houston to NYC. I think more of the same this year and more no offers/firings.

What do you mean by restructured? You mean moving people from Houston to NYC? (I'm confused by what you mean by the "restructured classes from Houston to NYC" part)

Yeah, I heard that V&E no offered more people than usual and I've heard of other no offers but it's hard for me to tell how much of that is typical TX market no offering or if it's actually more widespread

[Johann]

Yeah moved people from Houston to NYC.

[gaddockteeg]

My rudimentary understanding is that Texas relies on oil industry and the oil industry is crap right now. Low oil prices mean a lot of deals aren't profitable to make, meaning less legal work.

[Abbie Doobie]

is this mostly limited to houston or are dallas and austin being hit as well?

[Anonymous User]

I'm in Dallas at a TX headquarted firm and have as much work as I can handle. I have no clue what it will look like down the road though.

[Br3v]

Low oil = mergers though, no?

[Br3v]

And deals gone bad lit?

[Companion Cube]

.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in Texas, I haven't heard any of these rumors. You're probably just hearing people speculate about low oil prices = tons more no offering/layoffs for biglaw (especially Houston) without much basis in fact. I really don't think that's going to be a problem. Oil prices were already really low last year, and the only one who significantly no offered was V&E, who get tons of bad PR for it already, so they won't make that mistake again. Firms knew oil prices were already shaky when they hired this year, and Texas classes are already significantly smaller than NYC to begin with.

Also, it's not like Texas Biglaw = oil / energy work exclusively. Just because there might be less oil work doesn't mean lawyers are not busy with other matters.

Anonymous edit: Also just got an email that Orrick is opening up an office in Houston, so I'm not too worried about the Texas Market

[Anonymous User]

I am also in Texas and know multiple people at all of the big shops in Houston. Things are definitely slower because of low oil prices (capital markets work especially). So while thing could possible get bad - I have not heard of any layoffs occurring at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Also here in TX at a Vault 100 TX-based firm. Things are slowing down a little bit--but not much. Lots of M&A activity and Bankruptcy which fuels other sections (Finance, Tax, etc.). General word on the street is that if low prices continue for many more months the pace might slow down generally--but right now that doesn't seem to be the case. I would imagine I would be one of the first to go if firm heads start to reduce the workforce--but I have not heard of anything like that yet.

[Anonymous User]

It must affect the legal industry though when the major players e.g. Chevron are laying off tens of thousands of employees. If the price of crude doesn't recover soon, there's gonna be big trouble

[Anonymous User]

I agree things could get ugly. I just don't understand the TLS random rumors of layoffs when its simply untrue. They just haven't happened yet. Also, its not like this has not happened before. There were not mass layoffs from TX firms in 08/09. I talk to associates who went 6 months without a project at times and they are still here. I understand down sizing could happen, but the firms know oil and energy in general will rebound and they don't want to be stuck with a bunch of empty class years when it does.

[OklahomasOK]

I haven't really heard much, honestly. I graduated from OU, now work in Dallas. Several friends in JD preferred positions got the axe (landmen at Chesapeake and the like) but as far as big law goes, it's a little slower than normal. I know a couple friends are gnawing at the bit for hours but aren't concerned about their jobs.

I work in a boutique that feels market effects 2-3 years after the fact and we're absolutely slammed right now. Somewhat of a mixed bag. I imagine Houston will feel the effects of depressed oil moreso than Dallas or Austin.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't really heard much, honestly. I graduated from OU, now work in Dallas. Several friends in JD preferred positions got the axe (landmen at Chesapeake and the like) but as far as big law goes, it's a little slower than normal. I know a couple friends are gnawing at the bit for hours but aren't concerned about their jobs.

I work in a boutique that feels market effects 2-3 years after the fact and we're absolutely slammed right now. Somewhat of a mixed bag. I imagine Houston will feel the effects of depressed oil moreso than Dallas or Austin.

I doubt litigation is going to feel the hit as hard as corporate work (I imagine you are in lit since you are at a boutique). Also, I think you are right - Houston will feel it more. Most people I have talked to here in Houston in Corporate are pretty slow right now. With oil falling sub $30, I don't see us speeding up anytime soon when most places need $55+ oil to be profitable. Hopefully if it does blow up in Houston other cities will absorb since it seems corporate work is still booming in most places.

[Anonymous User]

About four months into my first year at major Texas firm (corporate), billed about 300 hours so far. I take long lunches and leave at 5:31 PM every day, plus a long winter vacation. I'm loving it (until I get laid off). Enjoy it while you can, everyone says.

Have not heard of any layoffs.

[Anonymous User]

At a big 3 (or whatever, you get it) in Dallas. Things have slowed down a lot. Word from those in the know is to expect a really rough 2016. Haven't heard of layoffs yet though. Anyone thinking about lateraling to higher ground (i.e., out of an energy based economy)?

[Anonymous User]

It's slower in Houston. There are certain types of deals that are providing good work and there are transactional practice groups here and there that are slammed, but overall it seems to be slower in general and some practice groups are very slow. Things like real estate that are still very busy will probably slow down too if the crude price drop lasts too long.

There's been some M&A, but it hasn't been prolific yet. Producers are holding out as long as they can hoping things improve. As mentioned earlier in the thread, a wave of bankruptcies can also help provide work to other practice groups.

It doesn't seem like mass layoffs are around the corner or anything yet, though. Most folks seem to think this isn't like the 80's and things will rebound within a year or two.

However, if you are a 2L coming to Houston, you probably want to make sure you are seriously on your game this summer.

[Anonymous User]

At a big 3 (or whatever, you get it) in Dallas. Things have slowed down a lot. Word from those in the know is to expect a really rough 2016. Haven't heard of layoffs yet though. Anyone thinking about lateraling to higher ground (i.e., out of an energy based economy)?

I know some first years who had V5 offers in NY that have debated seeing if that offer was still open. I don't know if that is necessary. I think firms learned their lesson in 08/09 that it will rebound and when it does they don't want to be super low on associates. It probably is not the best time to be a 7/8th year because the market is not great for making partner or exit options, but 1-4th years are probably okay - there is no way oil stays low forever. This happens - oil booms and it busts.

[Anonymous User]

At a big 3 (or whatever, you get it) in Dallas. Things have slowed down a lot. Word from those in the know is to expect a really rough 2016. Haven't heard of layoffs yet though. Anyone thinking about lateraling to higher ground (i.e., out of an energy based economy)?

I know some first years who had V5 offers in NY that have debated seeing if that offer was still open. I don't know if that is necessary. I think firms learned their lesson in 08/09 that it will rebound and when it does they don't want to be super low on associates. It probably is not the best time to be a 7/8th year because the market is not great for making partner or exit options, but 1-4th years are probably okay - there is no way oil stays low forever. This happens - oil booms and it busts.

I am also interested in this. I am a first year at a top Texas firm. I have connections at another top firm (similar to the one I'm with now) in a more stable market, so I'm fairly confident I could make the move if I chose. Assuming I can, does any advise going or sticking it out and risking being a victim of the market? All considerations are pretty equal otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

At a big 3 (or whatever, you get it) in Dallas. Things have slowed down a lot. Word from those in the know is to expect a really rough 2016. Haven't heard of layoffs yet though. Anyone thinking about lateraling to higher ground (i.e., out of an energy based economy)?

I know some first years who had V5 offers in NY that have debated seeing if that offer was still open. I don't know if that is necessary. I think firms learned their lesson in 08/09 that it will rebound and when it does they don't want to be super low on associates. It probably is not the best time to be a 7/8th year because the market is not great for making partner or exit options, but 1-4th years are probably okay - there is no way oil stays low forever. This happens - oil booms and it busts.

I am also interested in this. I am a first year at a top Texas firm. I have connections at another top firm (similar to the one I'm with now) in a more stable market, so I'm fairly confident I could make the move if I chose. Assuming I can, does any advise going or sticking it out and risking being a victim of the market? All considerations are pretty equal otherwise.

Another TX junior associate interested in this. At a firm that has a fair bit of oil & gas work, and I have the chance to go to a coastal market, but at a firm's office where the practice focuses on various industries. Not worried about being laid off or anything like that (at least in the short term), but I'm basically trying to weigh whether the switch--which would provide a more steady workflow immediately, and accelerate my career development (b/c I'd actually be working at a higher, more consistent pace compared to my current situation, which is best described as sporadic) and potentially expand exit options (and locations) due to the various industry focuses of that firm's office-- is worth the higher COL, an additional bar exam, and losing the early connections that I've made so far (I genuinely like and respect the people I work with).

Don't want to jump if things are gonna pick up some, but not seeing too many bright signs in the market. Any word on whether there is going to be increased deal movement as a result of lower prices? How soon till we hit the breaking point yet? Maybe I should have taken that bankruptcy/restructuring course in law school after all....

[Anonymous User]

At a big 3 (or whatever, you get it) in Dallas. Things have slowed down a lot. Word from those in the know is to expect a really rough 2016. Haven't heard of layoffs yet though. Anyone thinking about lateraling to higher ground (i.e., out of an energy based economy)?

I know some first years who had V5 offers in NY that have debated seeing if that offer was still open. I don't know if that is necessary. I think firms learned their lesson in 08/09 that it will rebound and when it does they don't want to be super low on associates. It probably is not the best time to be a 7/8th year because the market is not great for making partner or exit options, but 1-4th years are probably okay - there is no way oil stays low forever. This happens - oil booms and it busts.

I am also interested in this. I am a first year at a top Texas firm. I have connections at another top firm (similar to the one I'm with now) in a more stable market, so I'm fairly confident I could make the move if I chose. Assuming I can, does any advise going or sticking it out and risking being a victim of the market? All considerations are pretty equal otherwise.

Another TX junior associate interested in this. At a firm that has a fair bit of oil & gas work, and I have the chance to go to a coastal market, but at a firm's office where the practice focuses on various industries. Not worried about being laid off or anything like that (at least in the short term), but I'm basically trying to weigh whether the switch--which would provide a more steady workflow immediately, and accelerate my career development (b/c I'd actually be working at a higher, more consistent pace compared to my current situation, which is best described as sporadic) and potentially expand exit options (and locations) due to the various industry focuses of that firm's office-- is worth the higher COL, an additional bar exam, and losing the early connections that I've made so far (I genuinely like and respect the people I work with).

Don't want to jump if things are gonna pick up some, but not seeing too many bright signs in the market. Any word on whether there is going to be increased deal movement as a result of lower prices? How soon till we hit the breaking point yet? Maybe I should have taken that bankruptcy/restructuring course in law school after all....

I am right in the same boat. Could move to LA or NY, but I am loving no state income tax, I own a house (probably would rent it out if I moved to avoid selling in this market), etc. I really don't want to go back to CA lol