Negotiating Severance package Forum

[Anonymous User]

So I got let go last week because my two-Partner law firm is restructuring (i.e. splitting up) and they cannot afford to keep me. I have known about the restructure for months but the partner who was taking me with him assured me that it was fine and I was going with him and not to worry. The details of the restructurionmg were being still worked out and there was no set date for it. After I was told about the restructuring (or around the same time, it's hard to remember) I got a 12.5% raise and a bonus and was told I was doing great. For the next 3 months business seemed slower and I billed alot less b ut I brought in a new client and won every casde I was handling (which was only 2 but whatever). About 2 months ago, the partner I was going with hired a new guy (with alot more expereicne than me, to replace a guy who had left the firm a few months before the restructuring). I thought it was weird to hire a new person and be entirely responsible for his salary (and now mine) but I figured he had worked through the numbers. Neverthless I had begun looking for another job because my firm is pretty toxic and the split made it clear how bad things had gotten.
So I wasn't shocked when I was told they had to let me go and that it was not my performance at all and I'm a great lawyer etc. But I was shocked because they offered me no severnce and wanted me to tell everyone in the firm I was resigning (like, I'm pretty sure the cat will be out of the bag when the admin staff see I filed for unemployment). I was told I should work for the next 2 weeks and be paid and that after two weeks I was on my own for COBRA and would not get anything but they would not contest my unemployment, He said I could talk to him again today about how that plan sounded. Honestly, that plan sounds like bullshit. If I'm not being terminated for cause or performance (but because of firm downsizing and elimination of my position) and am being asked to work another 2 weeks to finish up my active matters or pass them on I feel like the standard is to pay me for the days I work, and then give me a certain number of months (1-3) of base salary and pay for my full or partial COBRA, at least until I find another job. Is it reasonable to ask for that? I would also ask them to write a recommendation letter just so I have it. Whgat would y'all do?
Also, if they don't provide any severance what should I do? I work in a smaller city with a pretty tight leghal community and I don't want to burn bridges. But I also don't think it's appropriate to ask me to wrap up my matters and give me no severance if I'm being let go for reasons that have nothing to do with performance.

[20160810]

They let you go and then told you to work the next 2 weeks? It sounds like they are offering you 2 weeks' pay as a severance package but telling you to work for free, which is almost certainly illegal in any state if I'm understanding that correctly.

You've got a couple of options. The first is to ask them for a severance package and offer to sign a waiver and general release (since that's the only thing you really have to offer to make this a negotiation and not a solicitation). This is probably going to piss them off and might get you nowhere, but they sound like idiots, so fuck them.

On the other hand, if you absolutely need these guys to serve as a reference, it's probably best to just walk away. But whatever you do, don't give them 2 weeks of free work after they've fired you. They can eat a dick.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Yea that's my understanding of it. I talked to him this morning and basically just said that, given the situation of it not being for cause and because of a restructuring and I was being asked to work for the next 2 weeks, my understanding was that it was customary in the industry to have a severence package. He got really defensive about it and said we never had a contract about severance, that I could apply to other jobs while at work because things are slow right now and that I would get unemployment so it's not like he left me with nothing. He also tried to backtrack on why I was being let go and said that he's not going to say it's for cause but that I wasn't a good fit. He eventually softened and said we could talk about it again tomorrow after I brouight up the fact that unemployment won't cover my student loans and that I had turned down an offer the week after he gave me raise. I really wished I had recorded this convo. I think I am just going to draft an agreement tomorrow, gIve it to him to sign tomorrow, and if he doesn't I am going to leave tomorrow. He is asking me to lie to other employees, clients and the communnity about why I am leaving (probably to save face) but he doesn't get that for nothing.

[20160810]

OP here. Yea that's my understanding of it. I talked to him this morning and basically just said that, given the situation of it not being for cause and because of a restructuring and I was being asked to work for the next 2 weeks, my understanding was that it was customary in the industry to have a severence package. He got really defensive about it and said we never had a contract about severance, that I could apply to other jobs while at work because things are slow right now and that I would get unemployment so it's not like he left me with nothing. He also tried to backtrack on why I was being let go and said that he's not going to say it's for cause but that I wasn't a good fit. He eventually softened and said we could talk about it again tomorrow after I brouight up the fact that unemployment won't cover my student loans and that I had turned down an offer the week after he gave me raise. I really wished I had recorded this convo. I think I am just going to draft an agreement tomorrow, gIve it to him to sign tomorrow, and if he doesn't I am going to leave tomorrow. He is asking me to lie to other employees, clients and the communnity about why I am leaving (probably to save face) but he doesn't get that for nothing.

Drafting an agreement seems like a lost cause at this point. I would probably not bother because he's not going to sign anything. Just leave and don't give him two weeks of free labor. If you really want to create a paper trail, send him an email saying something like "because I have been let go, I will not be returning to work for the next 2 weeks. Good luck" and print that out.

[Desert Fox]

I'd go in and just do no work. Consider it your severance. That is assuming they are paying you for those two weeks. If not lol

Technically he doesn't owe you anything (other than maybe vacay days). You can just apply for work the entire time.

Write up your own recommendation letter and tell him you'll go along with his lie about resigning if he signs it, promises to give good references, and also puts it in writing that you are being laid off--not terminated for cause.

It just sounds like these guys are out of money. You aren't going to get blood from a stone.

[20160810]

I'd go in and just do no work. Consider it your severance. That is assuming they are paying you for those two weeks. If not lol

Technically he doesn't owe you anything (other than maybe vacay days). You can just apply for work the entire time.

Write up your own recommendation letter and tell him you'll go along with his lie about resigning if he signs it, promises to give good references, and also puts it in writing that you are being laid off--not terminated for cause.

It just sounds like these guys are out of money. You aren't going to get blood from a stone.

This is actually all pretty good advice. Do this.

[smallfirmassociate]

I'd go in and just do no work. Consider it your severance. That is assuming they are paying you for those two weeks. If not lol

Technically he doesn't owe you anything (other than maybe vacay days). You can just apply for work the entire time.

Write up your own recommendation letter and tell him you'll go along with his lie about resigning if he signs it, promises to give good references, and also puts it in writing that you are being laid off--not terminated for cause.

It just sounds like these guys are out of money. You aren't going to get blood from a stone.

Yeah, what that firm is doing is bad business, but it sounds perfectly, errr, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. So yeah.

I've been on the opposite side of things at my firm. A few other partners and I wanted to fire a guy for like 14 months but the two biggest name partners just wouldn't do it. Said it is bad for your reputation to fire a guy. I was like, "Then give him 60 days' notice, give him severance, I don't care" but they wouldn't go for it. The associate eventually left either because he knew he was terrible or out of sheer dumb luck.

I'm telling you that to tell you this: Desert Fox is probably right that they don't have anything. If they DO have anything, your only bargaining chip is basically to say something like, "Don't you think this is bad business, to cut me lose after ALL I'VE DONE FOR YOU?" (It helps if you start playing a Celine Dion song right when you get to the comma.) Maybe sneak in a mention about how you're looking for other jobs in the area and imply that you might tend to be open about the circumstances of your firing. Old law guys hate to have their reputation be called into question. Unless they're slimy, which they probably are based on what you have said, in which case you're effed. And you might burn bridges; if it's your word against them with local attorneys, well, are they known slimeballs or will people believe them?

TL;DR: There's a 10% chance that they have any money and a 10% chance that they care enough about their reputations to give you any of it. I'm no math major, but it doesn't look good.

Best of luck, (wo)man. Definitely a raw deal. Hope you find something else / better.

[smallfirmassociate]

Any update, TS?

[LA Spring]

If their “not a good fit” is what they really think: take the two weeks; come and go as you please; ask them leave you on their web site (make your cell the contact #). From there it’s up to you to hustle. You might consider asking them why you’re not a good fit.