Disclosing disability to employers... Forum

[Anonymous User]

who discriminates against people for having ms?

People who think MS is like muscular dystrophy, or that it impacts cognitive abilities.

I think given how hard lawyers work you have a lot of baby boomer partners who have limited knowledge outside of the area of law they practice, which results in intelligent people perceiving the world today as though we're still in 1970.

[GreenEggs]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

When you apply to law school and if you were suspended from undergrad for a year your transcripts will typically not say that. But you're still required to answer the question on applications (truthfully) that you were suspended and the reasons for it.

I didn't receive a sanction. I was forced to withdraw because I disclosed that I was suicidal.

Accidental anon, but I don't really see a stark difference. Unless you know for a fact that there is no record anywhere at your school of your suicidal thoughts, and that if contacted (with your permission even), the Dean would simply say you withdrew for personal reasons. Then maybe you could get away with not disclosing anything. But when asked why you withdrew, you would be lying and risking putting yourself in a bad position.

[Manali]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

When you apply to law school and if you were suspended from undergrad for a year your transcripts will typically not say that. But you're still required to answer the question on applications (truthfully) that you were suspended and the reasons for it.

I didn't receive a sanction. I was forced to withdraw because I disclosed that I was suicidal.

Accidental anon, but I don't really see a stark difference. Unless you know for a fact that there is no record anywhere at your school of your suicidal thoughts, and that if contacted (with your permission even), the Dean would simply say you withdrew for personal reasons. Then maybe you could get away with not disclosing anything. But when asked why you withdrew, you would be lying and risking putting yourself in a bad position.

Can't I just tell judges/employers that I withdrew for "health reasons" and leave it at that? They have no right to pry further.

[GreenEggs]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

When you apply to law school and if you were suspended from undergrad for a year your transcripts will typically not say that. But you're still required to answer the question on applications (truthfully) that you were suspended and the reasons for it.

I didn't receive a sanction. I was forced to withdraw because I disclosed that I was suicidal.

Accidental anon, but I don't really see a stark difference. Unless you know for a fact that there is no record anywhere at your school of your suicidal thoughts, and that if contacted (with your permission even), the Dean would simply say you withdrew for personal reasons. Then maybe you could get away with not disclosing anything. But when asked why you withdrew, you would be lying and risking putting yourself in a bad position.

Can't I just tell judges/employers that I withdrew for "health reasons" and leave it at that? They have no right to pry further.

In a non-legal position I'd say yeah you probably can. I can't really give you an opinion in the legal employer context (as it relates to the question of passing C&F). Hopefully someone here can.

[Manali]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

When you apply to law school and if you were suspended from undergrad for a year your transcripts will typically not say that. But you're still required to answer the question on applications (truthfully) that you were suspended and the reasons for it.

I didn't receive a sanction. I was forced to withdraw because I disclosed that I was suicidal.

Accidental anon, but I don't really see a stark difference. Unless you know for a fact that there is no record anywhere at your school of your suicidal thoughts, and that if contacted (with your permission even), the Dean would simply say you withdrew for personal reasons. Then maybe you could get away with not disclosing anything. But when asked why you withdrew, you would be lying and risking putting yourself in a bad position.

Can't I just tell judges/employers that I withdrew for "health reasons" and leave it at that? They have no right to pry further.

In a non-legal position I'd say yeah you probably can. I can't really give you an opinion in the legal employer context (as it relates to the question of passing C&F). Hopefully someone here can.

Of course for C&F I'll disclose everything. This thread is about disclosing mental illness to prospective employers.

[grand inquisitor]

no, don't tell the judge you were suicidal

[Anonymous User]

You don't have a duty to disclose your mental health history, but do have a duty not to lie, which makes the transcript a challenging issue. I didn't disclose the fact I was suspended in college for cheating to employers, and every employer who reviewed my college transcript never contacted me again presumably because of all the D's and F's. Taking time off in law school is more complicated because it will definitely come up. Saying health reasons is fine, but many people might assume it's mental health because if it wasn't then you'd likely be more specific. It's also very hard to work suicide into a short job interview without the interview being the most awkward experience the judge has ever had.

And this person is definitely BlueLotus. The writing style, delusions of grandeur, transfer status, city and conflict with the dean, not to mention that serious mental illness is very uncommon in women as compared to men. Has there been an IP address check?

[TooMuchTuna]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

When you apply to law school and if you were suspended from undergrad for a year your transcripts will typically not say that. But you're still required to answer the question on applications (truthfully) that you were suspended and the reasons for it.

I didn't receive a sanction. I was forced to withdraw because I disclosed that I was suicidal.

Accidental anon, but I don't really see a stark difference. Unless you know for a fact that there is no record anywhere at your school of your suicidal thoughts, and that if contacted (with your permission even), the Dean would simply say you withdrew for personal reasons. Then maybe you could get away with not disclosing anything. But when asked why you withdrew, you would be lying and risking putting yourself in a bad position.

Can't I just tell judges/employers that I withdrew for "health reasons" and leave it at that? They have no right to pry further.

It's difficult to tell which story you tell is the real one, but assuming you had to transfer out of BC/BU because the school would not take you back after your second withdrawal (which was basically a forced withdrawal based on what you've revealed previously, since they were going to suspend you if you didn't withdraw), I don't know how you'd spin the second withdrawal to make it look anything but pretty awful. I know that's tough to hear, but that's the situation you are/were in. Lying is a terrible idea, but the truth isn't going to do you any favors in securing employment either.

[Anonymous User]

Just to be clear, are questions like these common for biglaw apps? Or is this more of a federal gov/clerkship type thing? I don't remember ever being asked anything remotely similar for any other job app I've ever filled out.

[20160810]

Borderline personality disorder counts as a disability?

[grand inquisitor]

Borderline personality disorder counts as a disability?

the definition is so broad as to be useless. some of my favorite state worker-claimed disabilities in my clerkship were: glaucoma, diabetes (type II I'm sure), lupus (apparently every woman who is bad at her state gov't job has lupus).

[20160810]

What do we think are the odds that BlueLotus has faked a pregnancy before?

I'm going with 90%, but I could be talked into going as high as 104%.

[Actus Reus]

Borderline personality disorder counts as a disability?

the definition is so broad as to be useless. some of my favorite state worker-claimed disabilities in my clerkship were: glaucoma, diabetes (type II I'm sure), lupus (apparently every woman who is bad at her state gov't job has lupus).

[A. Nony Mouse]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

This is non-responsive to what I said. My first point was about if you get asked about whether you were ever asked to leave school/suspended from school, so it won't matter what's listed on your transcript. A judge won't see anything noted on your transcript, but they will see that you transferred, and they will ask why you transferred. You have to decide how to answer that. For health reasons is fine, but it isn't really the complete answer, so you have to think about how you want to handle that if the judge inquires further. Whether it is or isn't the judge's business isn't necessarily going to stop them from asking.

(For the person who asked how common this is - the bar and government background checks are really the only things that I can think of that would ask directly whether someone had to withdraw from a school.)

[A. Nony Mouse]

Has there been an IP address check?

People change accounts. I think you might be familiar with that.

[Anonymous User]

Just to be clear, are questions like these common for biglaw apps? Or is this more of a federal gov/clerkship type thing? I don't remember ever being asked anything remotely similar for any other job app I've ever filled out.

Someone I went to law school with was prohibited from being in the school past a certain hour and security would do a walk through daily because of this person as they had OD'd on some meds late at night at one point. I doubt there's an outstanding paper trail and would bet she's fine not disclosing it, but the withdrawals on the transcript are going to come up at most interviews, which makes mitigating concerns difficult without lying. It's a shitty conundrum, and I empathize.

I think you can dodge the transfer question without lying. The reasons transferring was good for your mental health, OP, would be good for anyone's mental health: family, familiarity with the area, missing home, etc.

[Manali]

Just to be clear, are questions like these common for biglaw apps? Or is this more of a federal gov/clerkship type thing? I don't remember ever being asked anything remotely similar for any other job app I've ever filled out.

Someone I went to law school with was prohibited from being in the school past a certain hour and security would do a walk through daily because of this person as they had OD'd on some meds late at night at one point. I doubt there's an outstanding paper trail and would bet she's fine not disclosing it, but the withdrawals on the transcript are going to come up at most interviews, which makes mitigating concerns difficult without lying. It's a shitty conundrum, and I empathize.

I think you can dodge the transfer question without lying. The reasons transferring was good for your mental health, OP, would be good for anyone's mental health: family, familiarity with the area, missing home, etc.

Yeah, that's what I plan on saying.

[Manali]

There's a difference between your medical history and your disciplinary history, and the ethics of disclosing your disciplinary history are different than the ethics of disclosing your medical history.

(FWIW, my federal clerkship employment forms didn't ask if I'd ever been required to withdraw from an educational institution, but other kinds of employment might. The bar almost certainly will. And you have to consider how you would answer a judge asking "why did you transfer from First School to Second School?" without lying. Personally I would be very uncomfortable trying to fudge that question without bringing up the disciplinary action, but that may just be me. And yes, I know you had lots of other reasons, but I'm not talking about those.)

But my transcripts from the old school just say "W" for withdrawal. No disciplinary action is noted on my transcript.

This is non-responsive to what I said. My first point was about if you get asked about whether you were ever asked to leave school/suspended from school, so it won't matter what's listed on your transcript. A judge won't see anything noted on your transcript, but they will see that you transferred, and they will ask why you transferred. You have to decide how to answer that. For health reasons is fine, but it isn't really the complete answer, so you have to think about how you want to handle that if the judge inquires further. Whether it is or isn't the judge's business isn't necessarily going to stop them from asking.

(For the person who asked how common this is - the bar and government background checks are really the only things that I can think of that would ask directly whether someone had to withdraw from a school.)

Is it unethical just to say "health reasons" and not disclose the suicidal ideation?

[A. Nony Mouse]

No, I do not think you need to (or should) disclose suicidal ideation to a judge. I'm just saying you need to be prepared for how to answer questions about the transfer and the fact that were not allowed to return to your previous school makes answering a bit dodgy (but this is also going more to your disciplinary history than your medical).

[20160810]

Nony you are engaged in some serious windmill-tilting trying to reason with a legit nutcase all the time. Just let her lie cheat and steal.

[xael]

something something something "disability is actually blindness" etc

[BVest]

For once I'm on the side of Manali/Lotus being able to disclose less information rather than more. "Health reasons" as a reason for your withdrawal and subsequent transfer is fine. If pressed, I would follow with "I prefer not to discuss those aspects of my health." Keep in mind that may get you dinged, but (a) you should never have to disclose that to an employer and (b) avoiding details on the subject will be less harmful to your application than saying it was for suicidal ideation and related behavior.

[OLitch]

Can a LS remove you for disclosing that you are suicidal? That would discourage others from seeking help. Having this post up could discourage others from seeking help.

[lacrossebrother]

I'm totally using this "common wisdom is don't disclose disability unless you want something" in a brief. "Clearly the only reason she disclosed this disability for which she needed no accommodations was because she thought it would prevent her from being terminated for being terrible at her job."

[lacrossebrother]

Also you could get an affirmative action bump for disclosing this in a way that lets employers know you won't cost anything, but they can list you as an example in their federal contracting affirmative action audits.