BigLaw to FBI Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any insight on this (odd?) career path? My hope is to start in biglaw (2L SA this summer lined up) but some FBI connections in my immediate family lead me to think it might be a possibility.

Has anyone done so? If so, how did it turn out? Legal department or agent?

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a military background? The people I know who have done something similar started in the military.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard/seen this outside of NYC about four times (in smaller markets and once from a DC firm). Former LEO/Military/Cyber/Languages/Finance are all sweeteners that help you progress through the process. The real issues for most are the pay cut from BigLaw, the ego cut, and the grinding hiring process (1yr+).

I would say going w/o any prequalifications (the above sweeteners) an FBI SA gig is about as hard to get from Biglaw as MBB consulting or Buldge Bracket Ibanking. Your smart and people like that but they also like people who fit the mold...i.e., have a linear progression to the gig (UG Accounting Major, ROTC, 4 yrs service, LEO, apply to FBI at 26-28).

FBI (or any agency) Legal Department is an easier sell because it makes sense to the Agency hiring professional and you can more accurately assess your candidacy.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a military background? The people I know who have done something similar started in the military.

True. Haven't you seen Sicario, OP?

[Anonymous User]

As I understand it there is no legal department at the FBI. You can be an agent or an analyst (the agent is the long hiring process) (also other law enforcement support staff). The "legal department" of the FBI is the Department of Justice and the various AUSA offices they support. I know that FBI -> Law School -> AUSA career path is a real thing, I suppose the reverse direction could work too.

Definitely a pay cut from Big Law, you have to question why you'd do it in that order if you are really interested in serving in law enforcement. I don't agree with an ego cut. Big Law associates are faceless suits, a dime a dozen in the scheme of things. Its harder to be an FBI agent (by the numbers) than be an astronaut. I would be more proud of that accomplishment than Big Law. Sometimes it helps to get a little more global perspective than the law school standards of success.

[Internetdan]

Indeed. If you have an ego as a biglaw junior you need to quit that right now as a matter of gp, but more importantly your career should be developing in a way that you learn to manage the egos of the richer, more important non-lawyers you are ultimately there to manservant.

[Anonymous User]

Re: legal department, I'm pretty sure that the FBI has an office of general counsel. You'd basically be an in-house lawyer for the FBI (lots of employment/personnel stuff). If you want to try FBI cases, yeah, you need to work as an AUSA or for DOJ main justice.

I don't think there are a lot of lawyers-turned-agents, but it's always possible, I suppose.

[hdunlop]

Its harder to be an FBI agent (by the numbers) than be an astronaut.

even if true, this makes me lol so hard

[Anonymous User]

Bumping to see if anyone has any more insight on this?

[Anonymous User]

Idk, I was talking to an ausa friend and she said that lots of lawyers go FBI and that an advanced degree is a prerequisite. She said that she used to work with an agent that was a lawyer and they used to talk strategy about trying the case, because he used to try cases as a lawyer. She said an accounting background is more in demand, but law degrees are still valued. This is all second hand though.

[Civilservant]

I've talked to maybe 3 special agents about this, and it seems to be a matter of timing. The bureau is very particular in the types of skills they are looking for in a given class. One agent I met had a background in forensic accounting, and this was something they were interested in. Do you have any background in crimonology, forensic psychology, forensic science, accounting, etc? I don't see how a liberal artist to jd would be of much interest. Like many jobs, there has to be some demonstrated interest in the job during your education and or training to make the leap.

[PeanutsNJam]

Its harder to be an FBI agent (by the numbers) than be an astronaut.

even if true, this makes me lol so hard

Seems completely false to me. Unless anon is saying since more people apply to the FBI than NASA (i.e. ratio of applicant to accepted is lower for FBI than NASA astronaut), FBI is therefore more difficult. Which, by that logic, Harvard is about as selective as UNC.

I don't see why it'd be harder to be a federal detective than a scientist that is sent to conduct experiments in outer space and is part of like a dozen-man team in charge of a billion dollar piece of machinery.

[Moonraker]

Seems doable; FBI agent once gave a presentation at a USAO I worked at; he said they don't even look at professionals until you hit 30; they want you to grow up

[kalvano]

Also relevant: are you in tip-top physical shape? Because the physical tests are brutal.

[pattonthicke]

I thought about doing this career path before, but declined for a bunch of reasons. Anyway, when i was in law school, two FBI agents (who went to the law school) came to have a little chat about how to get in. This is what i know:

1. Going to law school is one of the five paths by which one can become an FBI agent (i actually think this is listed in their website somewhere).

2. ^^^^Notwithstanding the above, the agent told me it is less common path than the other ones because of agency need. Law school used to be a pretty easy path to get to the FBI and i mean straight from law school--dude didnt even have to take the Bar, but that was back when the FBI was a federal law enforcement agency who used to chase interstate bank robbers and Hannibal Lecter. Since 9/11 and Chinese Hacking, FBI is a counter-terrorism agency and counter-intellegence agency. A couple of years back they actually took law enforcement off their website but then Congress freaked and they put it back on. But make no mistake, 90% of what they do is not law enforcement anymore. Because of this, agency prefers accounting people and computer geeks because they are actually useful. Dude told me having a background in accounting really helps tracking terrorists by following their money etc...

3. Given #2 and the fact that you are already in law school I think the best course of action for you is to go to big law and try to do white collar criminal work and then apply to FBI. Big law isnt a bad idea because you still have to get a Top Secret clearance which I THINK (verify this) requires a debt to income ratio of no more than 80% of first year salary, so i think your debt needs to be down to like 60k or so.

4. Just do 6 years in big law>AUSA and watch 24 on the weekends.

5. All my information is 2 years old so you need to verify.

[Anonymous User]

I know a couple people who went from law to FBI agent. It's a very long process (I think it took 1.5-2 years from application to start date). They ended up having to pass written exams, a physical exam and also psych test plus an arduous background check. They love their jobs a lot more now - it's a combination of a desk job plus they go into the field and do stuff.

If you're fit or can get fit, go for it. You also need some decent upper body strength to pass the pull up and push up reqs. I think you have to be younger than 35 to be an agent though.

[Leprechaun]

I had a conditional offer of appointment as a Special Agent back in 2007 but ultimately I walked away. They wouldn't guarantee me a specific geographical region so I decided to stay in my current job.

Very competitive process but what helped me tremendously was being a CPA. At that time, CPAs, lawyers, and bilingual persons were in demand by the Bureau.

At that time you had to be in Quantico by your 37th birthday or you were ineligible to be a Special Agent, and about 8 months before I hit that threshold, I vividly remember driving up to headquarters in Dallas and giving them a written rejection of their offer. Was the end of a boybood dream for me, but was ultimately the best decision I could make for my family and I.

I ended up going to law school years later and I graduated in December 2016, and hope to get positive results when bar results are released in May. I have now made it at my current job long enough to draw a pension when I retire in a few months and I have another Fed offer lined up (IRS Honors Atty).

Of course I will always wonder what life would have been like as a Special Agent but I'm way out of their age range now.

Good luck to you, would be an exciting career.

Mike

[redsox550]

also think you are auto dinged if you smoked weed once post-bar... it is possible that the standard may be slightly more lenient but it is still uber stringent

[Anonymous User]

Big law isnt a bad idea because you still have to get a Top Secret clearance which I THINK (verify this) requires a debt to income ratio of no more than 80% of first year salary, so i think your debt needs to be down to like 60k or so.

FWIW this may be an FBI-specific requirement, but it is not for TS (or TS/SCI) clearances in other agencies.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdote: There have been two people at my firm (NYC biglaw) who left for the F.B.I. in the past couple of years. One was a 4th year associate (female) and one was an 8th year associate (male). Neither of them were in the military. Both were in M&A. They are both now special agents (i.e. they do not work as lawyers whatsoever) in NYC.

Just thought I would chime in to let you know that it is at least possible.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in-house, not Big Law, but I went through the FBI application process to be a special agent about 1.5 years ago. Ultimately turned down the offer for a few reasons:
1. You don't get to decide where you're stationed. You list your top three choices but the FBI places you based on their current needs. You find out where you'll be stationed while you're at Quantico. There's actually a cool ceremony where you and the rest of your trainee class find out.
2. You don't get to decide what you work on. You could get assigned to organized crime, white collar, terrorism, etc. I wanted to be an agent because I'm most interested in violent crime and mass casualty events. However, there's no guarantee I would have gotten to work on those types of things.
3. I decided that I didn't want a 24/7 job. When I walk out of my office, that's it. I don't check my emails or take calls. I didn't want to switch to a job where I'd be on call all the time.

The FBI recruits all different types of people. In my application class we had bankers, soldiers, police officers, scientists, and lawyers. The one thing I'll mention is that if you're a K-JD, you should work for at least a few years after law school before you apply. The FBI wants people with real life experiences. If all you have done is sit in classrooms, your chances of getting hired are very slim.

[Anonymous User]

Its harder to be an FBI agent (by the numbers) than be an astronaut.

even if true, this makes me lol so hard

Seems completely false to me. Unless anon is saying since more people apply to the FBI than NASA (i.e. ratio of applicant to accepted is lower for FBI than NASA astronaut), FBI is therefore more difficult. Which, by that logic, Harvard is about as selective as UNC.

I don't see why it'd be harder to be a federal detective than a scientist that is sent to conduct experiments in outer space and is part of like a dozen-man team in charge of a billion dollar piece of machinery.

When I was going through the FBI application process we were told that less than 1% of applicants make it through the process and receive offers. I have no idea what the percentage is for NASA astronauts.

[hdunlop]

I'm not in any way suggesting it's easy to get into the FBI, but I'm pretty sure astronauts are like SCOTUS clerkship where you can't just be from bigairforce or bigscience but go through a feeder gig first and then even after that it's insanely competitive. Maybe that's just what I tell myself for never trying to follow my childhood dream, though.

[PeanutsNJam]

Its harder to be an FBI agent (by the numbers) than be an astronaut.

even if true, this makes me lol so hard

Seems completely false to me. Unless anon is saying since more people apply to the FBI than NASA (i.e. ratio of applicant to accepted is lower for FBI than NASA astronaut), FBI is therefore more difficult. Which, by that logic, Harvard is about as selective as UNC.

I don't see why it'd be harder to be a federal detective than a scientist that is sent to conduct experiments in outer space and is part of like a dozen-man team in charge of a billion dollar piece of machinery.

When I was going through the FBI application process we were told that less than 1% of applicants make it through the process and receive offers. I have no idea what the percentage is for NASA astronauts.

According to NASA, there are currently 46 active astronauts. Since I'm sure there are far more than 4600 people who would like to be an astronaut, yes, I am confident that it is harder to be an astronaut than an FBI agent.

ETA- this past year, over 18,000 people applied to be an astronaut (oddly large number though; google says it's regularly more like 7,000). Since NASA doesn't replace its active astronaut roster every year, I'd assume they take like 2-3 a year. You do the math.