Unusual T14 Ranking Question Forum

[Anonymous User]

Would you consider the top Canadian law schools (U of T, McGill) to be on par with the US T14 schools in terms of how NYC firms perceive them? For example, in cases where everything else might be equal, is a firm more likely to take a student from McGill over one who went to, say, Cornell or Georgetown? This of course assumes that the McGill/U of T student had a good answer for the why US/NYC question.

Thanks!

[TheodoreKGB]

I think you need an American LLM to take the bar, if you're a foreign trained lawyer.

[Anonymous User]

U of T and McGill grads are eligible to take the NY bar as soon as they finish school (just like American grads) so no LLM needed

[2014]

Go browse the websites of NY firms, they are all searchable by school. The amount of people represented from any T14 is far higher than U of T or McGill. Part of this is explained away by class size and self selection but even account for that, it's almost certainly easier to get NY from a US T14 than either good Canadian school.

[Rlabo]

I would imagine firms who have offices in Canada (e.g. Paul Weiss) would be more receptive to this, if only for those offices, so I would start there.

[Anonymous User]

Have met some GC's from McGill, not F500 but large companies none the less.

I know this has nothing to do with NYC but whatevs

[Anonymous User]

My firm (V10) does on-campus recruiting at Toronto, but as far as I'm aware we haven't hired a Toronto grad in about ten years.

The problem is that there are so few McGill/Toronto/etc. students interested in US biglaw that's it's hard to assess how such schools are viewed. I doubt firms have particularly well-established expectations on grade ranges, etc. that they would take. On a guess, I'd say a student at McGill would have about the same shot at NYC biglaw as a student at a school like Vanderbilt or UCLA -- not great chances, but don't need to be top 2%, either.

[cheaptilts]

My firm (V10) does on-campus recruiting at Toronto, but as far as I'm aware we haven't hired a Toronto grad in about ten years.

The problem is that there are so few McGill/Toronto/etc. students interested in US biglaw that's it's hard to assess how such schools are viewed. I doubt firms have particularly well-established expectations on grade ranges, etc. that they would take. On a guess, I'd say a student at McGill would have about the same shot at NYC biglaw as a student at a school like Vanderbilt or UCLA -- not great chances, but don't need to be top 2%, either.

I mean if we're basing this on pure conjecture I'd probably guess that a biglaw firm would take top 10% UCLA/Texas/USC/Emory over top 10% Mcgill in most circumstances and would almost certainly need to be near the top of the class

[Tiago Splitter]

According to this in the summer of 2006 there were 12 from McGill and 15 from UT at Vault firms. Seems like pretty good placement given class size is around 200.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Typically, 5-10 New York firms will come to these Canadian schools and conduct interviews for students in the top 20% of the class (with about 20-30 students interviewing and 10-15 receiving offers). To clarify, I am wondering how these Canadian schools are perceived in relation to T14s in a couple of different contexts:

-Applications to V5-V10 firms that DO NOT conduct Canadian OCIs (potential for lateral or 3L mail application)
-application for US LLM programs (immediately after law school)
-application for US MBA programs (3-4 years after law school)
-Applications to McKinsey/Bain/BCG (2 years after starting practice with current firm)
-Applications to investment banking positions (2 years after starting practice with current firm)

This is assuming top 10% grades + LR + meaningful work experience and strong demonstrated interest in business (although not undergrad major). I will be working for a V30 firm in NY (think MoFo, W&C) as a 2L in corporate and am interested in seeing whether TLS considers my Canadian school to be a net positive/negative/outright disqualifier as I look to consider each of these options.

I do recognize the difficulty in a couple of the options proposed above (and that some people here may deem them impossible to achieve/pointless to waste time or energy). That said I am just interested in how the Canadian school on my CV will be compared to applicants for similar positions/schools who have attended T14s.

Greatly appreciate everyone's responses thus far, thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Given cost of attendance and exchange rate for foreseeable future I would say osgoode and uoft are solid. More than 3/4 of people who I know who went in wanting US big law got it. The numbers are low because most people just don't want it.

My recruiter at a V5 said they view UofT as a peer to top US schools for recruiting purposes. I'd much much sooner go to UofT than anything below CCN at sticker, that's for sure. I'd take a full ride down to UCLA over UofT though if only because the hiring process is so much more streamlined that way and the full ride dampens risk clearly.

Can't speak to McGill, but I know through a friend of at least one McGill grad at a V5 this year. The person had great grades, though.

[Anonymous User]

Also there's no reason to think firms with Toronto offices are at all more receptive. Paul Weiss or Skadden NY are gonna regard the same as like Freshfields and Clifford Chance and Gibson Dunn. Don't expect to get hired at the Toronto office of a US firm as they are extremely tiny and usually hire one summer a year.

[TinkyKwat]

Canadian lurker here.

Judging from school stats and lawstudents.ca, only Toronto sends students to the States in any meaningful numbers every year. McGill and Oz combine for a handful every year.

In terms of recruiting, there's OCI where American firms conduct interviews and/or have resume dropoffs. The major problem for Canadian students is that we have a significantly lower yield than the American firms would like in terms of accepting offers to return. Apparently we've burned them too many times.

[Cobretti]

OP here. Typically, 5-10 New York firms will come to these Canadian schools and conduct interviews for students in the top 20% of the class (with about 20-30 students interviewing and 10-15 receiving offers). To clarify, I am wondering how these Canadian schools are perceived in relation to T14s in a couple of different contexts:

-Applications to V5-V10 firms that DO NOT conduct Canadian OCIs (potential for lateral or 3L mail application)
-application for US LLM programs (immediately after Law school)
-application for US MBA programs (3-4 years after law school)
-Applications to McKinsey/Bain/BCG (2 years after starting practice with current firm)
-Applications to investment banking positions (2 years after starting practice with current firm)

This is assuming top 10% grades + LR + meaningful work experience and strong demonstrated interest in business (although not undergrad major). I will be working for a V30 firm in NY (think MoFo, W&C) as a 2L in corporate and am interested in seeing whether TLS considers my Canadian school to be a net positive/negative/outright disqualifier as I look to consider each of these options.

I do recognize the difficulty in a couple of the options proposed above (and that some people here may deem them impossible to achieve/pointless to waste time or energy). That said I am just interested in how the Canadian school on my CV will be compared to applicants for similar positions/schools who have attended T14s.

Greatly appreciate everyone's responses thus far, thanks!

If you are saying firms require top 20% grades to interview, they are treating these schools as lower than t14

[Anonymous User]

That sounds right. If they're selecting from the top 20%, then they're treating them as lower end Tier 1 schools? Think Moritz or UNC?

[RaceJudicata]

If you already have a gig in a NY V30, you are all but guaranteed an offer, then who cares how your resume is "viewed." It was good enough to get the gig.

Also, Top 20% requirement fits with Mid-low T1 from what ive seen. (At a low T1).