Working as a Community College Professor Forum

[Manali]

Will a J.D. suffice for teaching government, paralegal studies, or political science at a community college? Or do you need a Ph.D. for these positions? How competitive is the academia market in these areas?

[ymmv]

Most CC instructors are contingents, i.e. adjuncts. Budgets are generally low and hiring for full time tenure track positions is extremely competitive.

I have no idea about JDs specifically.

[Cartman]

For what it's worth, my Civics professor at my old Community College was a J.D. He taught the class with a legal bent. I don't know whether he was full-time faculty, though, or just an adjunct--my guess is the latter.

Mind you this was also one of the wealthiest community colleges in the state and one in a very, very desirable area, so they probably could have hired a Phd if they desired.

I've considered it too tbh. I enjoy teaching, and community college professors can spend more time teaching and less time worrying about "publish or perish." Down side is, as noted above, lack of resources and lots of applicants for these positions.

[Anonymous User]

I have a PhD and JD. Many years of teaching at a prestigious college. Taught in a Jr. college after my MA and before completing the PhD. You do not need a PhD to teach at the community college level, but, as others have suggested, it's highly competitive, and most likely you'd have to show teaching experience, strong evaluations from students, letters of recommendation relevant to teaching etc., not to say you can't try and it can't be done. It all depends on the local market of prospective applicants. That said, teaching is, if you are naturally suited to it, an incredibly enjoyable and satisfying career. Part-time, non tenure-track at a CC would, however, be rather a modest salary and generally no benefits or assurance of continuing prospects from term to term. Good luck!

[A. Nony Mouse]

There are some JDs who do this, but it has become harder and harder because as academic hiring has grown increasingly terrible, many people with PhDs who would not have considered community college teaching in earlier years are now grateful to get these jobs. (Not knocking community college teaching, just describing how it's traditionally been seen.) So the competition is extremely tough, and if choosing between a JD and a PhD most schools will go with the PhD. Many CCs require some number of credit hours (grad level) in the area you're teaching, and while some will count a JD as poli sci etc, some will not.

Academic positions in political science/government in particular are extremely competitive (in part because the barrier to entry is slightly lower - in that you don't need serious math/science/engineering skills or necessarily language skills to go into these fields - not knocking anyone who does, it's just there are a lot more poli sci majors than, say, chemical engineering majors. So there are just a lot more people to do grad work and go into teaching).

And as with any academic position, you generally have to be willing to go anywhere the job is.

It's also true that many community college profs are adjuncts and teach 1-2 courses a semester rather than a full course load - pay per course varies but it can be incredibly low (like $4k) and no benefits. Many teach at a number of schools to make ends meet. This can be done if you're in a major urban area with a lot of CCs, but isn't feasible everywhere (and it also kind of sucks).

Finally, almost every community college prof I know got their full time job after adjuncting at that institution (and usually others) for 3-5 years or so.

Once you have some experience teaching at the CC level and have courses put together, it's a lot easier to find additional courses. But there are a lot of applicants who already have experience so it can be very hard to break into, especially without any college-level teaching experience.

If you look at faculty listings at community colleges, keep in mind that anyone who's worked there for, say, 10 years or more was hired under pretty different expectations than an applicant is likely to face now. The thing about law partners not knowing what current legal hiring is like is the same in academia.

[Hand]

Is OP a blue lotus alt? These threads really smell like BL.

[Nebby]

Is OP a blue lotus alt? These threads really smell like BL.

Yes.

[Hand]

Is OP a blue lotus alt? These threads really smell like BL.

Yes.

Now that we've got that out of the way, I see that nony has said already everything there is to say about the subject of this thread, so let me just +1 that. CC teaching gigs have become pretty sought-after by PhDs due to the terrible academic job market, so yeah, far from an easy road to take.

[Manali]

I majored in Sociology and Anthropology in undergrad and minored in Spanish. Could a JD substitute for a Ph.D. for teaching CC in these subject areas? I had a 3.9+ in my major, 4.0 in my minor, tutored for the Spanish department, and presented original research at national and regional social science conferences. I have no interest in getting a Ph.D-no offense to the older students on here but I don't wanna be stuck in school when I'm in my mid-30s.

Also, adjuncting seems like an appealing option. I intend to go into low-paying public interest (PD, legal aid), so an extra $4K a semester for teaching a course sounds awesome. How many years of WE would I need to become an adjunct professor? What kind of law school grades/rank do you need to qualify as an adjunct?

[Anonymous User]

Wanting to teach at a community college is comparable to wanting to be a staff attorney, except you will almost definitely be paid less money. The people who I know who have adjuncted at community college make $15,000-20,000 per year. Someone who I know got a tenure-track job at a community college and makes $40,000. I think the only way this makes sense as a choice is if money is no object (you have a trust fund) and you like the work, or if it genuinely makes no difference to you how much $ you make.

[Gray]

.

[Manali]

in any subject you've mentioned, you'll be competing with people who have their PhD in that subject, which is usually going to be preferred by the institution. These days there are SO many PhDs thirsty for any sort of employment, even random adjunct positions. and what Nony said about the job market having crapped out dramatically in the last decade is totally accurate.

This plan is a non starter.

Even getting a $4K/semester position teaching Intro Spanish at a CC would be competitive?

[Gray]

.

[heythatslife]

in any subject you've mentioned, you'll be competing with people who have their PhD in that subject, which is usually going to be preferred by the institution. These days there are SO many PhDs thirsty for any sort of employment, even random adjunct positions. and what Nony said about the job market having crapped out dramatically in the last decade is totally accurate.

This plan is a non starter.

Even getting a $4K/semester position teaching Intro Spanish at a CC would be competitive?

are you a native spanish speaker? if no, GL with that.

Or a graduate degree in Spanish literature/education, which you also don't have.

[Manali]

I know that to be a tenured law prof, you pretty much need to be at the top of your class at HYS. Is there a lower standard for adjunct law profs?

[haus]

I know that to be a tenured law prof, you pretty much need to be at the top of your class at HYS. Is there a lower standard for adjunct law profs?

While the level of completion has jumped in the last 10-20 years for all academic positions, I suspect that being a professor tenured or otherwise at a law school is still tougher than being a professor at a community college (except perhaps for a full time slot with benefits in the most over crowded of specialties).

[Anonymous User]

There are some JDs who do this, but it has become harder and harder because as academic hiring has grown increasingly terrible, many people with PhDs who would not have considered community college teaching in earlier years are now grateful to get these jobs. (Not knocking community college teaching, just describing how it's traditionally been seen.) So the competition is extremely tough, and if choosing between a JD and a PhD most schools will go with the PhD. Many CCs require some number of credit hours (grad level) in the area you're teaching, and while some will count a JD as poli sci etc, some will not.

Academic positions in political science/government in particular are extremely competitive (in part because the barrier to entry is slightly lower - in that you don't need serious math/science/engineering skills or necessarily language skills to go into these fields - not knocking anyone who does, it's just there are a lot more poli sci majors than, say, chemical engineering majors. So there are just a lot more people to do grad work and go into teaching).

And as with any academic position, you generally have to be willing to go anywhere the job is.

It's also true that many community college profs are adjuncts and teach 1-2 courses a semester rather than a full course load - pay per course varies but it can be incredibly low (like $4k) and no benefits. Many teach at a number of schools to make ends meet. This can be done if you're in a major urban area with a lot of CCs, but isn't feasible everywhere (and it also kind of sucks).

Finally, almost every community college prof I know got their full time job after adjuncting at that institution (and usually others) for 3-5 years or so.

Once you have some experience teaching at the CC level and have courses put together, it's a lot easier to find additional courses. But there are a lot of applicants who already have experience so it can be very hard to break into, especially without any college-level teaching experience.

If you look at faculty listings at community colleges, keep in mind that anyone who's worked there for, say, 10 years or more was hired under pretty different expectations than an applicant is likely to face now. The thing about law partners not knowing what current legal hiring is like is the same in academia.

Not disagreeing with you about the more chem eng > poli sci students, but I was under the impression that to do a Ph.D in polisci you'd need a fair amount of stats/math?

I'm doing an MPP right now, and I have to take Analysis, Econ, Core Quant 1/2 and Inferential stats as part of the core classes (in addition to random seminars/lectures on other quant heavy things and another class i'll be taking that has a fair amount of quant work in it.) I'd imagine with a Ph.D you'd get even more intense with it?

[Anonymous User]

There are some JDs who do this, but it has become harder and harder because as academic hiring has grown increasingly terrible, many people with PhDs who would not have considered community college teaching in earlier years are now grateful to get these jobs. (Not knocking community college teaching, just describing how it's traditionally been seen.) So the competition is extremely tough, and if choosing between a JD and a PhD most schools will go with the PhD. Many CCs require some number of credit hours (grad level) in the area you're teaching, and while some will count a JD as poli sci etc, some will not.

Academic positions in political science/government in particular are extremely competitive (in part because the barrier to entry is slightly lower - in that you don't need serious math/science/engineering skills or necessarily language skills to go into these fields - not knocking anyone who does, it's just there are a lot more poli sci majors than, say, chemical engineering majors. So there are just a lot more people to do grad work and go into teaching).

And as with any academic position, you generally have to be willing to go anywhere the job is.

It's also true that many community college profs are adjuncts and teach 1-2 courses a semester rather than a full course load - pay per course varies but it can be incredibly low (like $4k) and no benefits. Many teach at a number of schools to make ends meet. This can be done if you're in a major urban area with a lot of CCs, but isn't feasible everywhere (and it also kind of sucks).

Finally, almost every community college prof I know got their full time job after adjuncting at that institution (and usually others) for 3-5 years or so.

Once you have some experience teaching at the CC level and have courses put together, it's a lot easier to find additional courses. But there are a lot of applicants who already have experience so it can be very hard to break into, especially without any college-level teaching experience.

If you look at faculty listings at community colleges, keep in mind that anyone who's worked there for, say, 10 years or more was hired under pretty different expectations than an applicant is likely to face now. The thing about law partners not knowing what current legal hiring is like is the same in academia.

Not disagreeing with you about the more chem eng > poli sci students, but I was under the impression that to do a Ph.D in polisci you'd need a fair amount of stats/math?

I'm doing an MPP right now, and I have to take Analysis, Econ, Core Quant 1/2 and Inferential stats as part of the core classes (in addition to random seminars/lectures on other quant heavy things and another class i'll be taking that has a fair amount of quant work in it.) I'd imagine with a Ph.D you'd get even more intense with it?

[Kinky John]

Getting certified and teaching polisci/law/gov at an affluent suburban high school would likely be much easier, more fulfilling, and more lucrative.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not disagreeing with you about the more chem eng > poli sci students, but I was under the impression that to do a Ph.D in polisci you'd need a fair amount of stats/math?

I'm doing an MPP right now, and I have to take Analysis, Econ, Core Quant 1/2 and Inferential stats as part of the core classes (in addition to random seminars/lectures on other quant heavy things and another class i'll be taking that has a fair amount of quant work in it.) I'd imagine with a Ph.D you'd get even more intense with it?

That could be the case, but I think it depends a lot on whether you do a quant track or a qualitative track. The poli sci program where I went to grad school doesn't have express stats requirements, although it may feature in some of the courses and you may need the skills for certain dissertations.

[Anonymous User]

Not disagreeing with you about the more chem eng > poli sci students, but I was under the impression that to do a Ph.D in polisci you'd need a fair amount of stats/math?

I'm doing an MPP right now, and I have to take Analysis, Econ, Core Quant 1/2 and Inferential stats as part of the core classes (in addition to random seminars/lectures on other quant heavy things and another class i'll be taking that has a fair amount of quant work in it.) I'd imagine with a Ph.D you'd get even more intense with it?

[/quote]

Probably depends on the program -- Grad students at my T20 UG didn't have to take any stats/math courses (program is strong in theory and professors looked down on stats heavy theses for potential tenure-track hires). However, post docs who completed their phd elsewhere did have a stats background.

[monsterman]

Getting certified and teaching polisci/law/gov at an affluent suburban high school would likely be much easier, more fulfilling, and more lucrative.

That sounds credited--the teachers at my public high school top out at over 100k now. And that doesn't include extra like 5k/10k for coaching and doing like yearbook

[Manali]

Getting certified and teaching polisci/law/gov at an affluent suburban high school would likely be much easier, more fulfilling, and more lucrative.

That sounds credited--the teachers at my public high school top out at over 100k now. And that doesn't include extra like 5k/10k for coaching and doing like yearbook

Getting a K-12 teaching job even in underperforming urban school districts is very competitive these days, from what I hear, let alone affluent suburban districts. The market is glutted. Plus I would need to undergo a teacher certification program, pass PRAXIS exams, etc. I am talking about adjunct/PT teaching positions that would just take me with just a BA and a JD.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Adjunct profs in law schools are hired based on practice experience in their areas. Look at the ones that teach at your school - they're usually local partners/practitioners. Adjunct community college positions, as discussed above, will expect graduate work in the field you teach. They're not less competitive than teaching K-12. And putting together a course/teaching is actually a lot of work.

[Kinky John]

Getting certified and teaching polisci/law/gov at an affluent suburban high school would likely be much easier, more fulfilling, and more lucrative.

That sounds credited--the teachers at my public high school top out at over 100k now. And that doesn't include extra like 5k/10k for coaching and doing like yearbook

Getting a K-12 teaching job even in underperforming urban school districts is very competitive these days, from what I hear, let alone affluent suburban districts. The market is glutted. Plus I would need to undergo a teacher certification program, pass PRAXIS exams, etc. I am talking about adjunct/PT teaching positions that would just take me with just a BA and a JD.

Just throwing it out there as something to consider