In what ways can/do summer associates screw up? Forum

[Anonymous User]

What are some of the ways that summer associates can screw up to the point of getting no-offered?

[Calvin Murphy]

1) Be incredibly unlucky (w/r/t firm financials. You don't really have control over this). This hasn't been a big issue lately, and I'm sure other posters have more to say on it than I do, but you're really asking about the other answers here...

2) Repeatedly miss deadlines. Most firms will expect your work to be lackluster, but there are very few work product issues that you will be able to run into at most firms that will get you no-offered.

3) Be a social liability. (i.e. don't get really drunk at the events)

[Anonymous User]

Being mean to people, being disliked, not turning in an assignment on time without communicating anything to other lawyers, being an awful writer, not caring about what other people have to say (pretending to care is completely acceptable), bad judgment (speaking up at a deposition, e-mailing the whole firm something stupid), being too stiff or the opposite. You generally want to be described as "nice, reliable, smart, happy." There is also some luck involved. If you're the summer staffed on the 10 hour assignment that really requires 3 summers and 80 hours each, you're likely to get a bad review. Vice versa, you look like gold.

[Br3v]

1) Be incredibly unlucky (w/r/t firm financials. You don't really have control over this). This hasn't been a big issue lately, and I'm sure other posters have more to say on it than I do, but you're really asking about the other answers here...

2) Repeatedly miss deadlines. Most firms will expect your work to be lackluster, but there are very few work product issues that you will be able to run into at most firms that will get you no-offered.

3) Be a social liability. (i.e. don't get really drunk at the events)

Yeah this is pretty much it. "Saying inappropriate things" would be a way to mess up to, though that probably falls under being a social liability.

[mvp99]

1. Not attending more than a few events.
2. Becoming defensive when criticized.
3. Making improper statement/jokes.
4. Not going to work or being late more than once.
5. Not turning an assignment on time without first emailing the assigning associate. Note that this is regardless of the importance of the assignment. Chance is it won't matter, it's about being responsible.
6. Getting drunk at an event (depends on who you're with I guess).
7. Utilizing firm resources improperly.
8. You simply don't fit at all with the firm or you are incredibly awkward.
9. Asking a partner how much you'll have to work once you start.
10. No treating non-legal staff with respect. (I say staff specifically because some people seem to forget)
11. (Not a screw up) There is no business need to hire you.

[kaiser]

As a general principle, its expected that work product from a summer associate will be fairly poor. If its even halfway decent, thats a win. Of course, thats not a comment regarding the individual's capability. Its just that you don't know what you are doing yet. In many cases, its an issue of "not knowing what you don't know", so you don't even think of the right questions to ask because certain things would never intuitively occur to you (nor should they). So keep that in mind, that in almost no case will you be no-offered for submitting sub-par work product. But the following are some things that can really work against you, since they are fully within your control:

--Having a bad attitude. This can include many things, such as being rude, acting overly-entitled, disinterested, etc.

--Poor communication. Make sure you are responsive, that you clarify project deadlines, etc. Blowing a deadline because you weren't on the same page on the timeframe is far worse than turning in a sub-par work product.

--Doing some above-the-law style no no. This could be something like getting plastered at the holiday party and saying inappropriate things to a partner, or it could be sending around an offensive joke email at work that gets out to too many recipients.

--Being too "weird". There is typically some leeway for weirdos, since big firms tend to attract quite a few. But you don't want to be "that" guy whom everyone singles out as particularly weird. You know the person. The one who skips the social events, can't seem to have a normal, chill human interaction, is awkward in literally every situation to the point of discomfort.

--Extremely poor work product. I know this seems to cut against what I said above, so its worth clarifying. Sub-par work product generally isn't an issue for a summer. But extremely poor work product is. If the person's writing is terrible, if their work is full of typos and style errors, if the substantive research is sorely lacking in pretty much every way, it can be a basis for a no-offer. I know of people who have been no-offered for this. Despite numerous sit-downs, coaching sessions, and pep talks, certain people manage to show, even within just a 2+ month period, that they do not have the intellectual capability to handle the work. Its rare, but it happens.

[LA Spring]

Just do good work. Minimal screwups (ala deadlines). If everything else is equal, being a [very] good writer is key... it is the Elixir for minor blunders. Oh yea, don't get caught up in too much gossip.

[Anonymous User]

The most common ways in which SAs screw up are:

1. Being irresponsible: Coming to work late, missing meetings, missing deadlines without first warning anyone, losing files, not proofreading work before it's submitted.

2. Being insubordinate (or perceived as such): Ignoring instructions, responding badly to feedback/reviews, doing work you're not authorized to work on, communicating with clients without authorization.

3. Not being a team player: Treating fellow SAs as competitors, trying to do everything yourself without asking for advice or help, communicating badly with the team, not going to social events.

4. Demonstrating lack of social skills or bad personality: Treating staff (secretaries, IT guys) badly, losing your temper, not getting along with fellow SAs or associates.

Contrary to what 0Ls or 1Ls may believe, not knowing the law or producing an incorrect legal analysis in a memo is NOT a reason to get no-offered: The whole point of the summer associate position is to start training you to be a lawyer in ways that law school cannot, AND to serve as a 10-week long extended interview to learn about you in ways that a day-long call-back cannot.

As others have mentioned, unless summer associates are really lazy or lackadaisical about the job, they are unlikely to screw up a project. SAs are generally assigned low-risk work with plenty of buffer time so that even if the SAs were to completely neglect the project, an associate could pick up the slack without the client noticing. Thus, there is no need to stress out about the projects: Treat each one as an opportunity (1) to learn how to be a lawyer, (2) to learn about the client and the attorneys on that project, (3) to demonstrate to your new colleagues how reliable you are.

[Phil Brooks]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Another guy at my school got no-offered. This person has a reputation for sharing his political views in replies to non-political Facebook statuses.

[Anonymous User]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Wait... what? Context please: Was he drunk? Was the partner drunk? Was this in front of other people? Was he dared? Did the partner dare him to? How well did he and the partner know each other?

[mvp99]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Wait... what? Context please: Was he drunk? Was the partner drunk? Was this in front of other people? Was he dared? Did the partner dare him to? How well did he and the partner know each other?

To be clear.. there is absolutely no context that would make this conduct ok

[NoBladesNoBows]

[TLSModBot]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Wait... what? Context please: Was he drunk? Was the partner drunk? Was this in front of other people? Was he dared? Did the partner dare him to? How well did he and the partner know each other?

To be clear.. there is absolutely no context that would make this conduct ok

Guy with a gun comes up and says he'll shoot everyone unless the SA licks the partner's neck?

ETA: Probably the only one though.

Yeah but what are the odds you'll end up at Clifford Chance?

[magnum_law]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Plz elaborate

[Anonymous User]

.

[TLSModBot]

Has someone said "Don't have sex with staff or real lawyers?" If not: don't have sex with the staff or the real lawyers.

[Anonymous User]

Has someone said "Don't have sex with staff or real lawyers?" If not: don't have sex with the staff or the real lawyers.

One of my classmates from undergrad who later attended a T14 law school had an affair with his secretary while summering at a V20 firm (Asia office). Nothing bad happened to him, so I guess the secretary kept her mouth shut about it (though he definitely didn't).

[Anonymous User]

A guy at my school got his offer revoked for licking a partner's neck at the end-of-summer offer celebration party.

Wait... what? Context please: Was he drunk? Was the partner drunk? Was this in front of other people? Was he dared? Did the partner dare him to? How well did he and the partner know each other?

To be clear.. there is absolutely no context that would make this conduct ok

Guy with a gun comes up and says he'll shoot everyone unless the SA licks the partner's neck?

ETA: Probably the only one though.

Yeah but what are the odds you'll end up at Clifford Chance?

What does this mean? Place to avoid?

[Anonymous User]

Has someone said "Don't have sex with staff or real lawyers?" If not: don't have sex with the staff or the real lawyers.

Other SA's fair game though right?

[Anonymous User]

Has someone said "Don't have sex with staff or real lawyers?" If not: don't have sex with the staff or the real lawyers.

Other SA's fair game though right?

Pretty common. But can get awkward sometimes.

[TLSModBot]

Yeah but what are the odds you'll end up at Clifford Chance?

What does this mean? Place to avoid?

Lol no. Just got a reputation (from lawyers I know who worked there) that they have or used to have some wild ones in their SA classes. I do not actually think someone will hold a gun to your head and demand you lick a partner's neck.

[TLSModBot]

Has someone said "Don't have sex with staff or real lawyers?" If not: don't have sex with the staff or the real lawyers.

Other SA's fair game though right?

I guess - if it happens it's probably fine but maybe don't use your SA as a place to troll for ass.

[Mola Ram]

In addition to the above, don't do the following:

1. Reveal material information about clients outside work--critical for transactional attys.

2. Ask attys or staff for drugs or where you can find drugs.

3. Maintain a blog about your day to day life as an SA at the firm.

4. Take too much on at the end of your SA-ship and blow deadlines on projects or rush projects.

5. Act like your shit doesn't stink and show up partners/staff.

[cookiejar1]

You can also screw up by neurotically worrying too much about losing an offer that you end up not enjoying your summer at all.

[Anonymous User]

Some advice on work product . . . One of the most difficult things for me as an SA was understanding how much time assignments would take because other than a few memos in LW&R, I had no frame of reference for how complicated an assignment would be or how long it would take me to formalize my written work.

Rarely will an assignment be time-sensitive, and 99 times out of 100, your assigning attorney will make this very clear to you. Most of the time, the deadline is insignificant. If the partner says that she's ok with having a small assignment done in a few weeks, there may be a temptation (in order to sound diligent) to say that you can get it to her in a few days. If you do this, you will inevitably screw yourself when all the sudden, because of some unforeseen wrinkles in the law, your 2 page memo turns into 8, and then you're pulling an all-nighter or possibly missing a deadline.

^ Don't do this. Tell the attorney, you will have it in two weeks. That way, if you get it done in 3-4 days, you will look diligent for getting it done way before the deadline. Give yourself this leeway, and you won't get no-offered for work product.

Also, don't take on too much work at any one time. No single attorney cares about how much work you are doing. An attorney only cares about the work you are doing for him or her. Don't get in a competition with your SAs regarding work product.

If you follow these two rules, you will generally be ok on work product.