Career Options Forum

[Barry_Spinoza]

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[metblvette]

Pretty much all of the people that I know of who don't practice law and work in industries such as finance are ex biglaw associates. I do know of one guy who currently works for a pretty prestigious consulting company and never practiced after graduating, but he worked at Goldman prior to law school, and summered at Goldman and a biglaw firm while in law school. If you have a solid employment background in another industry prior to law school, you may have a decent chance transitioning.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty much all of the people that I know of who don't practice law and work in industries such as finance are ex biglaw associates. I do know of one guy who currently works for a pretty prestigious consulting company and never practiced after graduating, but he worked at Goldman prior to law school, and summered at Goldman and a biglaw firm while in law school. If you have a solid employment background in another industry prior to law school, you may have a decent chance transitioning.

Thanks for the reply.

I do know of ex-biglaw types in finance who are 'of counsel,' or whatever, but that's not where I aim to go. I also know of a few who do compliance, which is an option, I guess, albeit not one I'm especially drawn toward.

I don't think my work experience in the two years between undergrad and law school is enough to get me in the door at MBB or a hedge fund in a trader role.

EDIT: OP here. Sorry, didn't realize I was replying anonymously.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

[Barry_Spinoza]

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[Anonymous User]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

[krads153]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

Yeah, that's bull. What MBB does care about are your SAT, LSAT scores, etc. They still ask about your SAT and LSAT scores, at least in the apps I've seen.

I went to a non-HYS T-14 and we had a few people in our year and the year before who ended up at MBB, some straight out, some after a stint in biglaw. MBB hiring is a lot more competitive than biglaw generally, at least percentage wise. You have know how to do case studies, etc. People prep for these interviews a bunch. If that's something you are interested in, you should brush up on basic math/econ and start doing case studies as prep.

[Barry_Spinoza]

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[Anonymous User]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

Yeah, that's bull. What MBB does care about are your SAT, LSAT scores, etc. They still ask about your SAT and LSAT scores, at least in the apps I've seen.

I went to a non-HYS T-14 and we had a few people in our year and the year before who ended up at MBB, some straight out, some after a stint in biglaw. MBB hiring is a lot more competitive than biglaw generally, at least percentage wise. You have know how to do case studies, etc. People prep for these interviews a bunch. If that's something you are interested in, you should brush up on basic math/econ and start doing case studies as prep.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that these opportunities were HYS only. I wrote "HYS" because I go to HYS. I know that MBB recruits on campus at CCN, I just wasn't sure whether that was the case for the rest of the T-14, and I assumed that they don't at the tier of school that OP attends.

[lawlorbust]

Not sure how relevant test scores are since for on-campus recruiting at HLS the first-round is completely fit-based and then you move into classic case interviews. Gotta do decently on the McKinsey PST, though.

[krads153]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

Yeah, that's bull. What MBB does care about are your SAT, LSAT scores, etc. They still ask about your SAT and LSAT scores, at least in the apps I've seen.

I went to a non-HYS T-14 and we had a few people in our year and the year before who ended up at MBB, some straight out, some after a stint in biglaw. MBB hiring is a lot more competitive than biglaw generally, at least percentage wise. You have know how to do case studies, etc. People prep for these interviews a bunch. If that's something you are interested in, you should brush up on basic math/econ and start doing case studies as prep.

Sorry, I wasn't implying that these opportunities were HYS only. I wrote "HYS" because I go to HYS. I know that MBB recruits on campus at CCN, I just wasn't sure whether that was the case for the rest of the T-14, and I assumed that they don't at the tier of school that OP attends.

I'm not sure about recruiting on campus at the other T-14. I do know that they still solicit at a lot of schools though (a bunch of undergrads included) and probably at least the rest of the T-14. (I applied as an undergrad from non-HYS.) Even if they don't recruit on campus at certain schools, they may still take apps from there and you will get to the testing/first interview stage if you have the requisite standardized test scores. They care about quant scores though, from what I can tell (well I guess they care about all scores generally) - so it's necessary to have a high math SAT score.

[Barry_Spinoza]

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[lawlorbust]

*Bump* and request that conversation be directed away from whether MBB recruits at HYS exclusively and back toward my dilemma.

I don't have special knowledge into tech industry hiring. But two thoughts:

1) Your JD will be useless/almost useless, as will be your paralegal position. Because your work experience isn't any help, I'd look at college graduate positions broadly, e.g., through your ugrad career services. Of course, the best case is reaching to your law school alum network and hoping that someone who made the switch takes a chance on you / helps you along.

2) Tech seems to have a reputation where someone can just "break in" through hustle. Not sure how true this is generally, but it's probably plain inaccurate at "big tech" as you've defined it. These are established, super-selective companies with filters in place to weed out the vast majority of applicants that they get. Google, Palantir, etc., are places that would be a long shot even for people with the perfect backgrounds. The idea that someone can network into a job at D.E. Shaw is laughable. And so on. If you're really interested in breaking in, then take any chance that you get. For now, forget any notion of "prestige" and landing in the "right place."

[Anonymous User]

I'm a former attorney who practiced for a few years before deciding to transition out. I now work in business development/sales at a "unicorn" tech company and am very happy I made the change.

The above poster is correct - many positions (and not just those in tech) look for specific skill sets or specialized knowledge/experience. To be perfectly honest, you're looking at your situation with an unusual sense of "entitlement." The reality is that (1) you have no directly relevant work experience to help you transition into something else and (2) while graduating from law school gives you some professional credibility, it is not directly applicable to non-legal careers.

Don't think about how "prestigious" your next position/career move is - instead, you should be thinking about what professional experiences will help you figure out the next career you want to pursue. Be prepared to start at the bottom of the career ladder again. Be prepared to answer "why did you go to law school if you don't want to be a lawyer" at every future interview you have.

It is possible to transition out, but it won't be easy and you need to think carefully about where you want to land/what you want to be doing.

[lawlorbust]

Poster above, just curious: how did you make the transition out yourself? Did you do anything between law and tech-BD?

[chingwoo]

Tag.

[krads153]

OP, if you are okay with JD-preferred paths, you can look into compliance. Not the most glamorous job, and can be kind of boring, but I hear it's regular hours (9 to 5) and you can make low to mid six figures in big cities. The pay is decent and I hear it can be upper five figures in low COL areas.

Sorry to get back to the HYS MBB consulting topic. That's odd that MBB wouldn't ask for scores at Harvard, considering how easy it is to get in these days (no offense, but standards for law school admissions have really dropped recently....). A billion years ago when I applied out of college (non-HYS though), they asked for scores. Then you did some test that most people (probably the PST?) with an econ/math/business background could pass. And then there were further rounds of interviews after that.

[Anonymous User]

Poster above, just curious: how did you make the transition out yourself? Did you do anything between law and tech-BD?

At the time I had a stable firm job, so I took my time with the search. Having a job already was nice because it gave me more freedom to be picky about what I was jumping out for and I wasn't in any immediate rush. After about 2 years of practice, I started to explore both legal and non-legal opportunities. I did a number of lateral biglaw and boutique interviews and I also interviewed at various tech companies. Some were more recognizable (Facebook, Uber) and some were smaller Series A or B startups. The positions I was interviewing also ranged from operations to JD-preferred to BD/sales.

Transitioning out was a very difficult decision for me. I was working at a good firm and I had good work product. I'm in my late 20s, and while I knew I could continue to move down the attorney track, I started to have major hesitation about whether I wanted to be an attorney for a long-term career. One of the biggest drivers for me was rationalizing that at my age, I could still take on the professional/financial risk of making a transition, something which might not be possible in my 30s/if I had a family to take care of. There are also other aspects to business which legal careers typically lack - greater mobility in terms of physical market location, greater variety of long-term career paths/exit options, etc.

I ultimately took a chance on a company that I thought was doing very interesting work and I got lucky - it's been an amazing fit for me and I've had great career traction moving down a different direction.

[Barry_Spinoza]

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[haus]

As someone who has been working in tech for over 20 years (the last dozen in InfoSec) I am curious what you think you would like to do in tech. Do you have any specific skills and or experience that can help?

Are you interested in (or willing to do) compliance work?

[Anonymous User]

As someone who has been working in tech for over 20 years (the last dozen in InfoSec) I am curious what you think you would like to do in tech. Do you have any specific skills and or experience that can help?

Are you interested in (or willing to do) compliance work?

Not OP but curious about entry level compliance opportunities.

[haus]

As someone who has been working in tech for over 20 years (the last dozen in InfoSec) I am curious what you think you would like to do in tech. Do you have any specific skills and or experience that can help?

Are you interested in (or willing to do) compliance work?

Not OP but curious about entry level compliance opportunities.

Back when I was a contractor for a large defense industry company, one of my jobs would be to help government agencies build out SOCs. In this role I would interview potential candidates to staff these teams. These teams would mostly be filled with folks with technical backgrounds, larger organizations would often have small teams of auditors that would be tasked with reviewing process and procedures, first to see if the teams were actually doing what they were saying they would do, and second to see if what they said they were going to do matches up with industry/government guidance.

Many of the people I have meet have academic backgrounds in accounting, although attorneys are not rare in this work. For smaller organizations that cannot justify having full fledge auditing teams in house, they would make arrange for teams of contractors to come in and perform the audits. The contractors were almost always fairly young and inexperienced, but with decent academic degrees (keep in mind that when contracts are bid, the only resumes the org will see will be for one or two 'key personnel' past that they will provide a laundry list of degrees (w/o the names of the schools) and certifications held by the team. This makes the companies biding for these contracts to prefer workers who have something that will look impressive on a list such as a masters of accounting or a law degree.

The gov jobs are likely tough to land starting out, but the contract positions are likely much easier. While the jobs themselves are not wonderful, they get you in the door at several different companies/agencies and you get exposure to different types of jobs helping people learn what they might be interested in pursuing down the road.

[Instinctive]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

Yeah, that's bull. What MBB does care about are your SAT, LSAT scores, etc. They still ask about your SAT and LSAT scores, at least in the apps I've seen.

I went to a non-HYS T-14 and we had a few people in our year and the year before who ended up at MBB, some straight out, some after a stint in biglaw. MBB hiring is a lot more competitive than biglaw generally, at least percentage wise. You have know how to do case studies, etc. People prep for these interviews a bunch. If that's something you are interested in, you should brush up on basic math/econ and start doing case studies as prep.

I wouldn't say it's total BS. Every single person I know who applied from my school (HYS) received at least a first round interview. That seems like it could be coincidence, but talking to those who run recruitment...it seems more like you basically auto pass to interview stage.

[krads153]

I mean, investment banks and MBB recruit at HYS, but I don't think you'll get much of a resume bump from a T20. Amazon has recently started reaching out to JDs for biz dev roles, but they seem to want some amount of work experience. Both also take biglaw associates in front office (not just legal) roles, although there's a significant drop in seniority - you basically start from scratch again.

I've seen a few (very few) people make the jump to tech. They either had very good credentials to begin with (e.g., IB analyst -> HYS -> VC) or hustled a lot during law school and spent their 1L and 2L summers at tech companies. It might be a bit too late for a 3L to do that. I'd suggest either a few years of tech-focused biglaw and then making the jump, or taking a college-level position and forgetting the fact that you've gone to law school.

I don't think "HYS" is a thing for non-legal jobs; I go to a different school and we have plenty of MBB and investment bank recruiting, I'd wager at least as many people going to that as Yale or Stanford does.

Yeah, that's bull. What MBB does care about are your SAT, LSAT scores, etc. They still ask about your SAT and LSAT scores, at least in the apps I've seen.

I went to a non-HYS T-14 and we had a few people in our year and the year before who ended up at MBB, some straight out, some after a stint in biglaw. MBB hiring is a lot more competitive than biglaw generally, at least percentage wise. You have know how to do case studies, etc. People prep for these interviews a bunch. If that's something you are interested in, you should brush up on basic math/econ and start doing case studies as prep.

I wouldn't say it's total BS. Every single person I know who applied from my school (HYS) received at least a first round interview. That seems like it could be coincidence, but talking to those who run recruitment...it seems more like you basically auto pass to interview stage.

Maybe they automatically assume you had the standardized test scores? As long as you have the scores, you auto pass to the interview stage...also only like 2% of people who apply to MBB end up getting it, so getting past the multiple rounds of interviews (case studies) is the hard part.