Ideas on Finding a Patent Prosecution Summer Associate Job with Nontraditional Background Forum

[Incubateus]

I'd like some opinions and available resources on how to approach my situation.

My Background
I majored in Economics and Political Science in undergrad and then worked in finance before law school. While going to Wake Forest for law school, I decided I wanted to go into patent prosecution so I picked up 24 credits in physics on top of my 3L year (the exact courses necessary to sit for the patent bar). I graduated this past May towards the middle of my class and passed the PA bar in July. Now I'm currently getting a masters in Electrical and Computer Engineering at Duke, where I'm set to graduate in December 2016.

Current Situation
Part of my current program involves a summer internship requirement. While most students go to a technical job (e.g. programming, hardware engineering, etc.), I'm looking for a summer associate position in patent prosecution because that's what I want to do after I graduate. I'd ideally like to stay in Raleigh-Durham, NC, but I'm willing to travel anywhere.

Since I no longer have the law school resources I used to have available, I've lost a lot of opportunities that the more traditional patent prosecution summer associate applicants have now. So I've been cold calling IP law firms to see if they're hiring summer associates, but it's a very slow process. The reason I've been cold calling is because almost every program has a requirement that applicants be law students (1L or 2L), so i want to check whether the application is worth going through for each firm. Other than that, there aren't many resources or openings to firms that I've found. Also, I have been using my network resources but haven't had any positive responses thus far.

If anybody has advice on a more efficient or useful approach, I'd definitely like to hear about it.

Thanks for the input!

[totesTheGoat]

Understand that your resume may not be super palatable to law firms given that you don't actually have a technical BS and because you don't have work experience. Patent pros hiring is much more about technical competence than it is about having the correct boxes checked.

You'll likely get some bites, but I highly recommend you looking for some technical work experience over the summer. I think your prospects will open up if you do that.

[pancakes3]

USPTO?

[Abbie Doobie]

why do you want to do pros so badly?

[Incubateus]

Understand that your resume may not be super palatable to law firms given that you don't actually have a technical BS and because you don't have work experience. Patent pros hiring is much more about technical competence than it is about having the correct boxes checked.

You'll likely get some bites, but I highly recommend you looking for some technical work experience over the summer. I think your prospects will open up if you do that.

The reason I was shooting for a patent firm rather than technical experience is because all of the patent attorneys I've spoken to have recommended opting for direct IP experience instead of technical experience. Most of them reasoned that my masters was substantial enough technical experience and that I should focus on the hard skills of patent prosecution instead. Not that the technical isn't valuable, just that it's preferable to go straight to practice with my background.

USPTO?

I wasn't able to find any summer associate positions at the USPTO right now. The two that are up on the website are only for veterans and seem to be trainee positions that go straight into full time positions rather than a summer associate or intern position.

why do you want to do pros so badly?

I'm not a big fan of the pure law, but I still enjoy certain aspects of counseling clients, developing strategies, and playing some of the legal games. I also got into it because I missed math and science (I started as a physics major in undergrad). From the patent attorneys I've spoken with, patent pros is a good balance between all of these things. You're always learning more science and technology and you certainly get a good mix of strategy, counseling, and game playing with office actions and claim construction.

Of course there's more to it than just those few things, but those cover a few of my main interests.

[fats provolone]

network and target smaller firms, even ones that maybe don't often have SAs. I did a 1L SA at a firm like this. I was the only "summer", they basically treated me as a temp patent agent. I did a lot of examiner interviews, often with no supervision.

[kcdc1]

I'd do a ton of emailing. Get in touch with every patent boutique in the Raleigh-Durham area (no matter how small), and ask if they're hiring law clerks. I'm guessing it will be easier for you to find part-time employment during the school year than it will be to find a "summer associate" position. Explain that you have your JD from Wake and are currently pursuing a masters in ECE at Duke, and that you've passed the patent bar. Those are strong credentials, particularly for firms in NC. I'd guess that if you step out of the summer hiring stream where everyone expects you to be a law student set to graduate in spring 2017, you'll have more success.

[totesTheGoat]

The reason I was shooting for a patent firm rather than technical experience is because all of the patent attorneys I've spoken to have recommended opting for direct IP experience instead of technical experience. Most of them reasoned that my masters was substantial enough technical experience and that I should focus on the hard skills of patent prosecution instead. Not that the technical isn't valuable, just that it's preferable to go straight to practice with my background.

If patent attorneys are telling you that you have sufficient technical experience, you have sufficient technical experience. If I were you, I'd go lean on your old Career Services from law school. Make them work for all the tuition you paid them. They should have plenty of IP contacts in the R-D area, because R-D is an IP hotbed. Just ask them for 5 or 6 names of attorneys who graduated from Wake and are practicing IP law in Raleigh-Durham. Your Career Services should have good networking contacts for you if they're worth anything.

[tbird]

Have you considered offering to volunteer somewhere? Would that qualify as a summer internship under your program? I know it is not ideal, and you still have a lot of time to find something that pays. That being said, offering to volunteer at a patent pros. boutique could really help you get your foot in the door if nothing else pans out. I volunteered at a patent pros. firm during my 1L winter break. That work wasn't for me but the firm was ready to offer me an ongoing job as a paid clerk that could lead to full time employment. That experience also played well later at interviews for other jobs that I wanted.

[pancakes3]

USPTO?

I wasn't able to find any summer associate positions at the USPTO right now. The two that are up on the website are only for veterans and seem to be trainee positions that go straight into full time positions rather than a summer associate or intern position.

I mean, you've got a pretty unique situation in that you're legally trained but still in school so I wouldn't let the fact that technically the USPTO website requirements stop you from applying, or at least inquiring. Also, I think you're technically following the advice that just about everyone's offering (hustling, networking, contacting, etc.) but for whatever reason it's not fruitful but you're not exactly saying that you're getting hard rejections either. When you're cold-calling these firms, what is their response? Maybe you should aim to set up a meeting with HR or recruiting so you can be face-to-face and explain yourself more effectively?

Side question: would patent prosecution fulfill your EE/CE internship requirement? Patent pros is technical but I wouldn't think it holds up to the rigor of a masters program.

Follow question: How long is your program - 2 years? I mean, this is THE internship year. Maybe you should hold off on the patent pros and just go for a conventional internship that your current school can help you find where you gain substantive engineering experience to pad the technical part of your resume and just apply for patent jobs (and not internships/SA) straight up. You've got your JD, you've got patent bar eligibility, you'll have an advanced degree... would a summer stint help you out all that much?

Also maybe you can just apply to USPTO as an examiner after your Masters?

[Incubateus]

network and target smaller firms, even ones that maybe don't often have SAs. I did a 1L SA at a firm like this. I was the only "summer", they basically treated me as a temp patent agent. I did a lot of examiner interviews, often with no supervision.

This is solid advice. I called one small firm with exactly this situation yesterday and the founding partner is going out to lunch with me to discuss the possibility of helping me. Thank you for the advice on this one!

I'd do a ton of emailing. Get in touch with every patent boutique in the Raleigh-Durham area (no matter how small), and ask if they're hiring law clerks. I'm guessing it will be easier for you to find part-time employment during the school year than it will be to find a "summer associate" position. Explain that you have your JD from Wake and are currently pursuing a masters in ECE at Duke, and that you've passed the patent bar. Those are strong credentials, particularly for firms in NC. I'd guess that if you step out of the summer hiring stream where everyone expects you to be a law student set to graduate in spring 2017, you'll have more success.

I've found that a lot of my emails are ignored. I'm guessing this is due to confusion caused by my nontraditional background. I have been calling however, with the occasional bite. I thought about part time work, but the program I'm in is incredibly time consuming so that is not a realistic possibility.

If patent attorneys are telling you that you have sufficient technical experience, you have sufficient technical experience. If I were you, I'd go lean on your old Career Services from law school. Make them work for all the tuition you paid them. They should have plenty of IP contacts in the R-D area, because R-D is an IP hotbed. Just ask them for 5 or 6 names of attorneys who graduated from Wake and are practicing IP law in Raleigh-Durham. Your Career Services should have good networking contacts for you if they're worth anything.

Good note. I was planning on doing this, but it sort of got lost in the shuffle. I'll do this today.

I mean, you've got a pretty unique situation in that you're legally trained but still in school so I wouldn't let the fact that technically the USPTO website requirements stop you from applying, or at least inquiring. Also, I think you're technically following the advice that just about everyone's offering (hustling, networking, contacting, etc.) but for whatever reason it's not fruitful but you're not exactly saying that you're getting hard rejections either. When you're cold-calling these firms, what is their response? Maybe you should aim to set up a meeting with HR or recruiting so you can be face-to-face and explain yourself more effectively?

Side question: would patent prosecution fulfill your EE/CE internship requirement? Patent pros is technical but I wouldn't think it holds up to the rigor of a masters program.

Follow question: How long is your program - 2 years? I mean, this is THE internship year. Maybe you should hold off on the patent pros and just go for a conventional internship that your current school can help you find where you gain substantive engineering experience to pad the technical part of your resume and just apply for patent jobs (and not internships/SA) straight up. You've got your JD, you've got patent bar eligibility, you'll have an advanced degree... would a summer stint help you out all that much?

Also maybe you can just apply to USPTO as an examiner after your Masters?

Those positions are just for veterans, so they're completely off the table for me. Cold calls have led to one interview, one request for a resume, a lot of non-responses, and a few offers for further discussion. It will satisfy the internship requirement. The program coordinator just wants me to get an internship that will help further my career goals. Program is 1.5-2 years, dependent on a bunch of factors. I'm hoping the internship will give me enough experience to either get an offer from the internship firm or be able to apply to other firms with at least a little experience. I'd rather not be an examiner for a bunch of reasons (debt to salary ratio, not holistic in terms of legal advice, etc.).



Thanks for all of your advice everyone! I've been doing a lot of what you all have recommended. I'm just looking for a more efficient, less cold-call way of doing things. So if you have advice on that subject, I'd appreciate the insight.

[kcdc1]

I've found that a lot of my emails are ignored. I'm guessing this is due to confusion caused by my nontraditional background. I have been calling however, with the occasional bite. I thought about part time work, but the program I'm in is incredibly time consuming so that is not a realistic possibility.

To clarify, my advice was to try to find a way out of the 2L Summer Associate stream. A lot of firms plan their summer programs around the expectation that law students will apply. You're not a law student, and you're likely getting screened out on that basis from a lot of firms without consideration of your otherwise impressive qualifications. If you apply outside of those established channels, you might get a more complete evaluation.

One way to do that would be to apply to work as an intern during the school year. You might be able to come up with alternatives.

I'd also consider the possibility that your emails are not getting responses because you're not framing them optimally. If you lead with, "I'm an engineering student at Duke who's already finished their JD, and I'd like to apply for a summer associate position at your firm," you're going to get more silent confusion than interested responses.