Dropping in 1st semester at T14 Forum

[Bffallf]

Hi,

I am a 1L in a T14 and am thinking about dropping out. I have not really enjoyed my classes, am def not interested in doing big law and have a very very small scholarship. I am not doing particularly well in my classes and I would be graduating with over 200k in debt. I would be ok with taking on low paying meaningful public interest work but have been told that it is very very difficult to get such work. I don't have any other career lined up and am thinking of doing teach for America and maybe becoming a teacher. Should I get out now while I only owe something like 30k or am I throwing away a great opportunity?

Tl;dr. Thinking about dropping out in first semester of T14 law. Would graduate with 200k debt don't want big law. Should I quit or wait.

[A. Nony Mouse]

How do you know that you're not doing particularly well in your classes when you don't have grades yet? (Which isn't to say that you shouldn't drop out - if you knew you were doing well, would it make a difference to how you feel about law school?)

Also, what kind of low-paying meaningful public interest work do you mean? (Again, not to say you shouldn't drop out even if your prospects are better than you think - just not sure exactly what you're picturing.)

Edit: dropping out may be best for you, and if so, that's totally okay - you should feel free to drop if you've determined it's really right for you.

[Bffallf]

My concern about my performance combed fled the following. 1. Did poorly on offical practice exam. 2. Haven't even started on outlining and am always behind on readings.

I am not sure what exact work I would want. I was generally interested in public interest law that might involve people with disabilities or work in health law.

Also as you note I may have felt better if I were doing well but I am not. Indeed the constant pressure to "do well" when you know you are graduating with over 200k in debt is a large part of what makes law school a horrible experience for me. Problem as I say is that I don't have a backup. I would not be homeless but I would certainly be unemployed for some time.

[CanadianWolf]

Much more information is needed before reasonable advice can be offered. For example, why did you apply to & enroll in law school ? What, if anything, do you enjoy about law school ?

(Also, which T-14 ? Experiences are likely to be quite different at Yale & Georgetown.)

Many law students dislike the first year of law school. Have you talked with other classmates & professors about your feelings ?

[CanadianWolf]

Meet with prof to determine why you did poorly on the practice exam. Read a book on how to write a law school exam.

Getting behind on readings is common. Take notes in class & use a study aid for each class.

My sense is that you are panicking because you're being asked to leave your comfort zone & grow. But, this needs to be evaluated in the context of why you applied to & enrolled in law school, in my opinion.

[CanadianWolf]

Also, you can buy outlines. Just go to class, take notes & read commercial outlines. Quit worrying about what you're not doing, and focus on doing the basics. Study examples of well written exams.

[Bffallf]

I wasn't sure about law school even when I applied. I was the classic case of ending up in law school because my B.A. would not get my anywhere and I wanted to become some sort of professional. I am planning to talk to my professors. As for classmates several have mentioned that they are or have thought about quitting.

I guess the bottom line is does it make sense to take on over 200k in debt when I don't want to big law and finding public interest stuff is hard.

I would rather not name my school. Let's just say it's neither of the ones you mention and is ranked between 10 and 14.

[TheSpanishMain]

I think it's normal to feel overwhelmed and lost during 1L. That said, 200k is a shit ton of money, even if you did want BL. I'd probably drop out, but that's just me.

[unfinishedthough]

I have heard that grades matter less for public interest positions than a demonstrated interest. If you are sure that a job in law / public interest really is what you want, but what is making you doubt right now is the debt and fear of failure, I might try to finish out the semester, give it your best, see how well you do and what kind of internship you can secure for the summer. If you just focus on those things for now and not the overwhelming long-term, you might be in a better position to evaluate your options come January.

[RaceJudicata]

Ultimately, you have to make this decision for yourself. That being said, dropping out early is always better than dropping out later. However, I would urge you to stick it out for rest of the semester and do your best to do well on your exams. You may be surprised with your performance and it could change your mind about law school. If not, then drop

[deepseapartners]

I don't blame you for not giving an anonymous forum more personal information than you already have, but at this point I think you need to talk to someone who you trust and who knows you better. I would also make an appointment with your career services office and explain your concerns. Especially if you demonstrate a strong passion for public interest law, that in combination with various loan-repayment programs may give you a more satisfying career than if you dropped out and did Teach for America.

Edit: clarity.

[CanadianWolf]

Probably Cornell. A few years back, several posters complained about the atmosphere at Cornell Law School. Law schools do have cultural differences.

OP: You can drop out now, work for a few years, then reevaluate your long-term career goals.

[Anonymous User]

How can you know you don't want to do BigLaw when you've never worked in a big law firm? Do you have close friends working in biglaw? Remember that the vast majority of online posting about the biglaw experience is from people who washed out (or are washing out) - i.e. its a biased sample. It's a tough gig but not meaningfully tougher than any other gig with a similar salary.

[emkay625]

Hi,

I am a 1L in a T14 and am thinking about dropping out. I have not really enjoyed my classes, am def not interested in doing big law and have a very very small scholarship. I am not doing particularly well in my classes and I would be graduating with over 200k in debt. I would be ok with taking on low paying meaningful public interest work but have been told that it is very very difficult to get such work. I don't have any other career lined up and am thinking of doing teach for America and maybe becoming a teacher. Should I get out now while I only owe something like 30k or am I throwing away a great opportunity?

Tl;dr. Thinking about dropping out in first semester of T14 law. Would graduate with 200k debt don't want big law. Should I quit or wait.

TFA is hard to get into (only 15% of applicants were accepted for the 2015 corps). So if this is your plan, 1. apply early and 2. work hard on your application.

[pancakes3]

How can you know you don't want to do BigLaw when you've never worked in a big law firm? Do you have close friends working in biglaw? Remember that the vast majority of online posting about the biglaw experience is from people who washed out (or are washing out) - i.e. its a biased sample. It's a tough gig but not meaningfully tougher than any other gig with a similar salary.

I don't think it's a stretch for someone to take a cursory look at the biglaw lifestyle and know with certainty it's not for them.

[Johann]

if you dont like it, you should leave. biglaw sucks. law sucks. most people who are at non YSH T14s and want to lead a somewhat normal life will have an infinitely better life dropping out.

[Glasseyes]

You're right to be thinking long term and to continually evaluate your goals, but if you can, it's really helpful to try and step back and try to maintain a little bit of perspective. You're 2/3 of the way through the hardest part. Next semester is no cakewalk, but it's not full-on shock immersion like the first semester. It's natural to feel supremely overwhelmed and to worry that all your classmates are smarter / harder-working / "getting it". The truth is some folks naturally excel at the in-class portion of law school; fortunately, this has almost no bearing on how they will do on exams. In my section, some of those kids did indeed do well, and plenty of others did not.

I'm a slow reader, easily distractible in general, openly horrible at outlining (I've never successfully made one of my own from scratch), and I'm terrible at keeping the facts of cases in my head during class. Fortunately none of that stopped me from doing well on exams. Recognize that you're being pushed way outside your comfort zone, and that this is an opportunity to grow and learn, and that you CAN do it at your own pace, regardless of what your classmates are doing. The competitive side of law school means folks are often manifesting their own anxiety by trying to show how smart they are in class; some of them have ridiculous memories for regurgitating minutiae a professor said on the second day of class, and they'll trot out that skill to impress the prof (and intimidate classmates) whenever they can. Fuck those kids. Do your own thing, put your head down, and focus on learning from that first practice exam experience. My first few attempts at practice exams were awful, but with practice I got better, and you will too.

As far as dropping out goes: if it's really not for you, hell, don't force it. It's a huge investment for sure, and 200k is a lot of debt. That said, if you take a public interest track career path, you'll be relying on LRAP anyway, and there are far worse outcomes than a low-paying job doing something you can believe in (and essentially going to law school for free). You will have to make this decision for yourself, but keep your chin up in the meantime, and best of luck out there.

[totesTheGoat]

Two things to think about:

1) Are you thinking about dropping out because it's hard or because you're really not interested in law?

2) If you don't want to do biglaw (something I completely respect), what is your path to paying back a quarter-million in loans? In order to answer that question, you need to know what options you have and how well they pay. Obviously, making $40k a year and paying back loans (even on PAYE) is really, really tough.

[Anonymous User]

My concern about my performance combed fled the following. 1. Did poorly on offical practice exam. 2. Haven't even started on outlining and am always behind on readings.

I am not sure what exact work I would want. I was generally interested in public interest law that might involve people with disabilities or work in health law.

Also as you note I may have felt better if I were doing well but I am not. Indeed the constant pressure to "do well" when you know you are graduating with over 200k in debt is a large part of what makes law school a horrible experience for me. Problem as I say is that I don't have a backup. I would not be homeless but I would certainly be unemployed for some time.

1st. Chill your tits. Everyone does poor on the practice exams and the ones who tell you they aced them are lying or cheated on them. So chill out.

2. Your on pace with the average. Most people don't start outlining until now. Hell, I didn't until 3 days before my finals started.

Reevaluate after 1st semester grades. Buckle down, work hard. For all you know this will push you towards A's.

[JustHawkin]

You're right to be thinking long term and to continually evaluate your goals, but if you can, it's really helpful to try and step back and try to maintain a little bit of perspective. You're 2/3 of the way through the hardest part. Next semester is no cakewalk, but it's not full-on shock immersion like the first semester. It's natural to feel supremely overwhelmed and to worry that all your classmates are smarter / harder-working / "getting it". The truth is some folks naturally excel at the in-class portion of law school; fortunately, this has almost no bearing on how they will do on exams. In my section, some of those kids did indeed do well, and plenty of others did not.

I'm a slow reader, easily distractible in general, openly horrible at outlining (I've never successfully made one of my own from scratch), and I'm terrible at keeping the facts of cases in my head during class. Fortunately none of that stopped me from doing well on exams. Recognize that you're being pushed way outside your comfort zone, and that this is an opportunity to grow and learn, and that you CAN do it at your own pace, regardless of what your classmates are doing. The competitive side of law school means folks are often manifesting their own anxiety by trying to show how smart they are in class; some of them have ridiculous memories for regurgitating minutiae a professor said on the second day of class, and they'll trot out that skill to impress the prof (and intimidate classmates) whenever they can. Fuck those kids. Do your own thing, put your head down, and focus on learning from that first practice exam experience. My first few attempts at practice exams were awful, but with practice I got better, and you will too.

As far as dropping out goes: if it's really not for you, hell, don't force it. It's a huge investment for sure, and 200k is a lot of debt. That said, if you take a public interest track career path, you'll be relying on LRAP anyway, and there are far worse outcomes than a low-paying job doing something you can believe in (and essentially going to law school for free). You will have to make this decision for yourself, but keep your chin up in the meantime, and best of luck out there.

I couldn't have said this any better myself. Even if you don't crush grades and get median, there are more than enough ways to hustle your way to gainful employment, granted you might be taking more of a risk than your big law seeking peers.

[Cogburn87]

Even if you don't crush grades and get median, there are more than enough ways to hustle your way to gainful employment, granted you might be taking more of a risk than your big law seeking peers.

I get the impression that OP doesn't want to be a lawyer, in which case hustling for employment as a lawyer probably won't appeal to him.

[Danger Zone]

if you dont like it, you should leave. biglaw sucks. law sucks. most people who are at non YSH T14s and want to lead a somewhat normal life will have an infinitely better life dropping out.

Exactly

OP, get out while you still can

[Anonymous User]

Probably Cornell. A few years back, several posters complained about the atmosphere at Cornell Law School. Law schools do have cultural differences.

OP: You can drop out now, work for a few years, then reevaluate your long-term career goals.

Probably right. Rumor has it that there is an influx of 1Ls dropping out, which may have prompted Cornell's Dean to hold a town hall meeting. Apparently its a handful that have already quit and counting.

OP, good luck with your decision. Your gut feeling will never fail you.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP, no one can really answer this for you. It's possible that you just aren't into law school and, like a lot of people, enrolled for lack of a better idea. It's also possible that the general shittiness that is 1L year is making you subconsciously think you don't want to be a lawyer, when really, it's just that you're stressed out and in a funk. That much is just sort of a question you have to work through on your own.

I will say 200k is way too much money for me to stomach, but people have different levels of tolerance for that.

[jbagelboy]

if you dont like it, you should leave. biglaw sucks. law sucks. most people who are at non YSH T14s and want to lead a somewhat normal life will have an infinitely better life dropping out.

Exactly

OP, get out while you still can

Agreed, I'd drop in your position (although I'd say if you don't want to be an attorney, that reasoning goes for any law school, not sure what changes whether you're at one good school or another).