What should I do? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi I have a strange situation at the moment.

I am currently taking a professionalism seminar class (1 credit) taught by one of my school's CSO. This CSO absolutely hates me. He/She said things in class to make fun of me, he/she wrote snarky emails to call me out as a bad student, he/she gave me bad grades on subjective class assignments. I am not the only person experiencing this. I have couple friends who felt the same way about this person. Not only that, I personally think this person is racist.

At this point I am okay with a B in that class, but if he/she is set on giving me a C or lower, I feel like i have to do something.

Should I bring this up to his/her supervisors or file a compliant against him/her?

My only concern is that that he/she might write some bullshit email to my SA firm to revoke my offer.

[Anonymous User]

I'd ask to speak to the dean confidentially, and raise all these concerns. Even assuming all of your accusations are accurate, I highly doubt they'd send such an e-mail or that the school would allow them to do so. The school has an active interest in you having an SA versus not having one, and would arguably be breaching a fiduciary duty owed to you if they go behind your back without cause, and harm your career. Namely, you would have a lawsuit against the school, and not only the individual CSO as the school has put him in a position of authority such that he has access to all these law firms.

[totesTheGoat]

Collect and preserve as much information as you can (while keeping on the straight and narrow. IOW, don't record him/her if that's against class policy). Talk to the dean ASAP. Don't let the dean go a week without either you talking with them or vice versa until this is resolved. You need them to know that you take this very seriously, and you won't stop pestering them just because they give this CSO "a talking to." That way, when you get a C at the end of the semester, you can take it to the dean and they'll know exactly what is going on.

[RaceJudicata]

Echoing what others have said ... Address immediately w/ the dean if you feel your concern is legitimate. Approach the subject delicately, i.e. don't come out and say that s/he is a racist without some substantial facts to back it up.

If you wait to address this, itll look like sour grapes when grades come out.

[Anonymous User]

I would record them if possible, even if it's against class policy. The logic of why schools sometimes restrict students from recording is to (1) preclude others from profiting off of the professor's tutelage and/or (2) preserve the value of going to class. The logic is not to ensure a minority student could be subjected to racism or having their future threatened without cause, and be denied an opportunity to collect evidence they're being wronged.

If you got this on tape, and the school punished you for getting it on tape then this becomes a CNN story: law school punishes victim for recording professor's racist tirade. In all likelihood because of the direct involvement the school would have in protecting such racism, you'd be looking at a handful of resignations from the top-down and net revenue losses of millions as successful alumni start to separate themselves from the school's management, not to mention your Title VII lawsuit. There's no way any dean would be stupid enough not to see that. There's also always the distinct possibility that the dean isn't an awful human being.

[jbagelboy]

Actually, the dean of my CSO did go behind my back to speak negatively about me to the recruiting director and hiring attorney at one of my SA. The recruiting director told me about the conversation; it didn't impact my SA experience or my offer, but it showed just how low career services can go (and that there really are no rules protecting us).

[Anonymous User]

I think that unless there's cause (i.e. you're such a bad person that doing so is necessary to protecting future students at the school), you could have sued but would just struggle to prove damages. Am I crazy to believe you'd be owed some kind of fiduciary duty?

[so ambivalent]

I had this same situation with my CSO. And I talked to the Dean who assured me she would not badmouth me but he also kinda downplayed it like "well they hjave no incentive to prevent you from getting a job." It helps that my CSO was such a dumb hateful cunt that she accidentally cc'd another student on an email between her and the head CSO re: how that student would just work for his family firm (when that family firm is a major donor to the law school). And she has definmately told female classmates of mine they don't need to work and done nothing for students of color. Everytime the school calls and asks me for money I say I won't give anything until she is fired.
Sorry for the rant, but seriously fuck most CSOs. There's a reason they aren't practicing lawyers...

[lavarman84]

Actually, the dean of my CSO did go behind my back to speak negatively about me to the recruiting director and hiring attorney at one of my SA. The recruiting director told me about the conversation; it didn't impact my SA experience or my offer, but it showed just how low career services can go (and that there really are no rules protecting us).

Did they do anything to punish him/her? Why did he/she talk bad about you?

[Anonymous User]

I don't think the dean saying there's no incentive for the CSO to go behind your back is downplaying the issue. Their performance is based on the class' employment numbers so unless bad mouthing a student will help another student it doesn't really make sense unless the CSO is mentally ill. Even then I'd find it very bizarre. This isn't like cheating on a test or something where there's a wrong for a benefit. I would imagine most CSO just don't care enough about any student.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think that unless there's cause (i.e. you're such a bad person that doing so is necessary to protecting future students at the school), you could have sued but would just struggle to prove damages. Am I crazy to believe you'd be owed some kind of fiduciary duty?

Yes. It's shitty if the OP is correct in their assessment of the situation, but no, the school doesn't have a fiduciary duty to you. And courts have been incredibly reluctant to interfere with a professor's academic judgment over a student's work, so suing is not a good option.

Edit: sorry, I just realized you were probably responding to jbagel, which is a slightly different situation than the OP because I'm presuming the CSO wasn't jbagel's prof. So ignore the academic judgment thing. But while the CSO doing that is incredibly shitty, I still don't think they have a fiduciary duty and you couldn't sue for breach of that. If it rose to the level of defamation, that's different (but I don't think opinion can be defamation, IIRC).

[jbagelboy]

Actually, the dean of my CSO did go behind my back to speak negatively about me to the recruiting director and hiring attorney at one of my SA. The recruiting director told me about the conversation; it didn't impact my SA experience or my offer, but it showed just how low career services can go (and that there really are no rules protecting us).

Did they do anything to punish him/her? Why did he/she talk bad about you?

Lol how could you punish the dean of career services? Its not like I raised a stink or anything. At this stage in my career they can do more damage to me than I can to them.

A lot of students had unpleasant run-ins with CSO during recruiting, but some shit went down before and during OCI that culminated in a forced "meeting" with the dean of career services and a whole lot of unnecessary excuses, half-apologies, and explanations of "policy". I can PM the full story but it was over a year ago and I'm not going to diatribe here..a few of us that didn't want to follow every bullshit suggestion or arbitrary 'rule' became 'problem children' since we looked out for our careers instead of smoothing egos. There's some vindication in that this year's 2Ls were so displeased with OCS that they basically staged a protest and forced the administration's hand to offer more legitimate services and address some of the more ridiculous excesses.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Also, to the OP, I really don't think you'd help yourself by recording the prof/CSO without their knowledge (unless policy allows that, of course). Chances are good you're going to have a hard time catching some kind of smoking gun anyway.

The problem here is that it's in the context of a course, and profs do have a lot of discretion over academic judgment of students. I would definitely keep any pertinent emails and graded assignments, and it's worth keeping a log of inappropriate comments. And I agree that raising concerns earlier rather than after grades makes it look less like sour grapes. The thing that may make it hard for you is that if any of this can legitimately qualify as academic assessment - if it's focused around your class performance - it may be hard to counter.

As for the racism stuff - again, you will need to document specifics. If your friends are having similar experiences (re racism or otherwise) make sure they're documenting, too. But I would advise against comparing those logs or going in to the dean together to raise these concerns - everyone should set up separate, independent appointments. If you come in together and say "we all feel this way" it looks like you're collaborating, if you can go in independently and each identify the same problems, it will be more convincing.

[84651846190]

1. Amass evidence.
2. Present evidence to CSO before grades are determined and ask CSO whether you should turn it over to CSO's superior.
3. Get a good grade.

[lavarman84]

Actually, the dean of my CSO did go behind my back to speak negatively about me to the recruiting director and hiring attorney at one of my SA. The recruiting director told me about the conversation; it didn't impact my SA experience or my offer, but it showed just how low career services can go (and that there really are no rules protecting us).

Did they do anything to punish him/her? Why did he/she talk bad about you?

Lol how could you punish the dean of career services? Its not like I raised a stink or anything. At this stage in my career they can do more damage to me than I can to them.

A lot of students had unpleasant run-ins with CSO during recruiting, but some shit went down before and during OCI that culminated in a forced "meeting" with the dean of career services and a whole lot of unnecessary excuses, half-apologies, and explanations of "policy". I can PM the full story but it was over a year ago and I'm not going to diatribe here..a few of us that didn't want to follow every bullshit suggestion or arbitrary 'rule' became 'problem children' since we looked out for our careers instead of smoothing egos. There's some vindication in that this year's 2Ls were so displeased with OCS that they basically staged a protest and forced the administration's hand to offer more legitimate services and address some of the more ridiculous excesses.

No clue. Would assume the Dean of Career Services would have to have superiors? All these horror stories are why I have avoided career services. And I've done the same thing...ignored the advice they gave (and even challenged it in some cases).

I'd love to hear the story. But it's up to you if you want to take the time to PM it. Won't hold you to it.

[JustHawkin]

Is this a T14?

[Anonymous User]

My experience at a t-14 was people go into CSO after they check out, and really do not like working very hard. I don't think they do anything to add extra work, and ruining one's career would be extra work. If they're actually an obstacle to finding employment rather than merely a waste of tuition and time then this is an issue, and I think OP will find everyone in school, out of school and who have not yet started will support them.

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

cant believe this behavior is so common. something similar happened to me

[Anonymous User]

OP here, this is not t14.

Thank you all for your contributions, I will take it under advisement.