Struck out, now what? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:46 pm

Looks like I'm just about striking out right now. All my callbacks have ended in no thank yous, my mass mailing efforts in NY have yielded no fruit, even the 50 or so smaller firms I've reached out to haven't gone anywhere....so what do I do now? Any new mails I send out are almost immediately replied to with a "done hiring" notice and they don't seem to be worth the time...I'm just really weary, sad and exhausted and not sure where to go from here.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:51 pm

interested in this as well

how to find in-house opportunities?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:00 pm

Now is the time to go through every connection you have. Make use of CSO, the alumni data bank, etc. It's a delicate balance, but you really want to balance locking something in and maintaining your grades. I think the only way to lock in 3L OCI after striking out will be to do something in house at a company relevant to a specific practice group, and then get hired by that specific practice group. But honestly, this is where your CSO should earn their keep.

wolfie_m. · Post by **wolfie_m.** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:45 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:12 pm

Agreed with the poster above. I struck at OCI after getting very good grades as a 1L and only found a job in my last month as a 3L. It took me until then to realize how I was doing some minor things on interviews that always made me look like the second best candidate. Plus my prep always sucked because had no idea how to prep properly for interviews.

A few pointers:

1) Get freaking great grades from here on out. I cannot reiterate this enough. My friends who struck out at 2L OCI and then went on to nail the rest of law school ended up having a much easier time getting interviews. At the end of the day, you may have a bit of a mark against you because if you didn't summer in a big firm, great grades may make a firm overlook that and give you and interview. Do not succumb to the temptation to be depressed and lazy and mail it in.

2) Great grades may get you an interview, but they won't get you a job. Figure out what went wrong and fix it. Be honest with yourself, don't play the victim, don't blame OCS or the mean people at all of the law firms. Career services may be able to introduce you to an interview coach, take advantage of it, some of the people can be real pros. At this point in my career, I've spoken to and interviewed many candidates. Almost always the ones that are successful are the ones that make you feel comfortable, can carry a conversation, smile and sound smart. When my colleagues and I discuss candidates that shouldn't be hired, it's almost always because they were to backward, weird, unhappy looking, etc. I know this is petty, but this is how people remember you and it colors the way they fill out their assessments. At the end of the day, it is nearly impossible for someone to actually predict whether you will do good work at this stage in the game.

3) I know this is BS, be prepared to say one thing about the firm that makes it sound like you've worked to figure out what differentiates it from others. I hated this one because all firm websites look the same and say the same thing. But, to be honest, in the industry firms are known and want to be known for different things. Some firms are super proud of their international presence, other firms pride themselves on their culture, etc. You need to figure a firm out before you walk in the door and then explain that you want to be in that firm for that reason. Then feel free to reiterate it multiple times to each interviewer. Any question that I found hard to answer on an interview, I found a way to connect it back to the reason why I want to be in that firm. Identify your goals for your career and ideal firm (usually a mixture of be the best I can be, knock it out of the park every day, gain important skills so I can contribute at a high level quickly. barf. etc.), connect them to whatever you found out about the firm and sell baby sell. Try to get in touch with someone in each firm that you will be interviewing at and pick their brain. Associates in my firm are constantly bombarded with messages about our firms goals and mission. We know what the firm wants to think about itself. Someone in career services can usually help you connect with an alum or schoolmate who knows about your target firm.

4) Network. Apply. Do both early and often. I got multiple job offers as a 3L, all through networking. I get contacted once in a blue moon by recruiting looking for a law student and or recent grad, students that have networked with me (however uncomfortable the meeting was) are on the top of my brain and get their materials submitted, plus the added benefit of me coaching them up about the firm. Also, search every job site, your school's Symplicity, etc. all the time. Apply the moment you see an interesting opening. Do not make the mistake of waiting. Some openings seem to sit around for a while, but often these jobs get filled quickly with the firm waiting a few weeks for the offeree to accept his or her offer. The offer stays up because the firm wants to have a back up option in case they get turned down. With great grades, you may actually get some interviews this way.

Anyways, best of luck. I know this is a tough and stressful road. I've been down it. Do not despair. Work your head off, search head off, interview your head off and it shall work out.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:53 pm

Don't give up now. As far as I know, many law firms are still hiring.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:15 pm

I've heard of more than a few firms that have been reaching out to students because their classes are not yet full--go forth with the plans people detailed here, but keep trying. A lot of people are rejecting loose end/late term offers right now, and there are spots.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:Agreed with the poster above. I struck at OCI after getting very good grades as a 1L and only found a job in my last month as a 3L. It took me until then to realize how I was doing some minor things on interviews that always made me look like the second best candidate. Plus my prep always sucked because had no idea how to prep properly for interviews.

A few pointers:

1) Get freaking great grades from here on out. I cannot reiterate this enough. My friends who struck out at 2L OCI and then went on to nail the rest of law school ended up having a much easier time getting interviews. At the end of the day, you may have a bit of a mark against you because if you didn't summer in a big firm, great grades may make a firm overlook that and give you and interview. Do not succumb to the temptation to be depressed and lazy and mail it in.

2) Great grades may get you an interview, but they won't get you a job. Figure out what went wrong and fix it. Be honest with yourself, don't play the victim, don't blame OCS or the mean people at all of the law firms. Career services may be able to introduce you to an interview coach, take advantage of it, some of the people can be real pros. At this point in my career, I've spoken to and interviewed many candidates. Almost always the ones that are successful are the ones that make you feel comfortable, can carry a conversation, smile and sound smart. When my colleagues and I discuss candidates that shouldn't be hired, it's almost always because they were to backward, weird, unhappy looking, etc. I know this is petty, but this is how people remember you and it colors the way they fill out their assessments. At the end of the day, it is nearly impossible for someone to actually predict whether you will do good work at this stage in the game.

3) I know this is BS, be prepared to say one thing about the firm that makes it sound like you've worked to figure out what differentiates it from others. I hated this one because all firm websites look the same and say the same thing. But, to be honest, in the industry firms are known and want to be known for different things. Some firms are super proud of their international presence, other firms pride themselves on their culture, etc. You need to figure a firm out before you walk in the door and then explain that you want to be in that firm for that reason. Then feel free to reiterate it multiple times to each interviewer. Any question that I found hard to answer on an interview, I found a way to connect it back to the reason why I want to be in that firm. Identify your goals for your career and ideal firm (usually a mixture of be the best I can be, knock it out of the park every day, gain important skills so I can contribute at a high level quickly. barf. etc.), connect them to whatever you found out about the firm and sell baby sell. Try to get in touch with someone in each firm that you will be interviewing at and pick their brain. Associates in my firm are constantly bombarded with messages about our firms goals and mission. We know what the firm wants to think about itself. Someone in career services can usually help you connect with an alum or schoolmate who knows about your target firm.

4) Network. Apply. Do both early and often. I got multiple job offers as a 3L, all through networking. I get contacted once in a blue moon by recruiting looking for a law student and or recent grad, students that have networked with me (however uncomfortable the meeting was) are on the top of my brain and get their materials submitted, plus the added benefit of me coaching them up about the firm. Also, search every job site, your school's Symplicity, etc. all the time. Apply the moment you see an interesting opening. Do not make the mistake of waiting. Some openings seem to sit around for a while, but often these jobs get filled quickly with the firm waiting a few weeks for the offeree to accept his or her offer. The offer stays up because the firm wants to have a back up option in case they get turned down. With great grades, you may actually get some interviews this way.

Anyways, best of luck. I know this is a tough and stressful road. I've been down it. Do not despair. Work your head off, search head off, interview your head off and it shall work out.

Super helpful advice, thank you! About networking, what sort of things did you do 3L year? I'm interviewing with firms here and there through Symplicity, but haven't had any good networking results. Also, did you apply broadly, or have a specific practice group you were targeting? Seems 3L hiring is more specific.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:58 pm

Just got a shitlaw SA offer! Pretty excited about having some well paying employment for the summer, but don't really like the firm well enough to consider it full time (and there's a not negligible chance I won't get an offer at the end of the summer anyway)

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:17 pm

Congrats on the offer! I'm wondering though -- what kind of law is considered "shitlaw"?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:31 pm

It's probably midlaw and not shitlaw, but the atmosphere of the office was iffy at best.

Pay is 100k (prorated for the summer) though, but I get the impression that there's maximum work expectation and minimum firm culture. Fine for the summer, but not personally my cup of tea in terms of full time. There are definitely jobs out there that pay the same and offer much more.

gaddockteeg · Post by **gaddockteeg** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:35 am

not a bad gig at all. congrats!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:36 am

Apply to mba jobs.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:45 am

How much is the pay as a summer? I read an article online that argued one of the main reasons it is so difficult to go from doc review to big law is that firms are hesitant to pay someone a big law salary if they would be willing to work for $15/hour irrespective of their credentials. To the extent this is true, I would think that to the extent this is a "shitlaw" firm it may be difficult to jump into big law. However, if it pays comparable to market, and handles matters that big law firms typically handle then it may be a very good option for what you seem to be looking for.

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's probably midlaw and not shitlaw, but the atmosphere of the office was iffy at best. I'm pretty sure I was an obvious diversity hire too since I didn't see a single non-white man or female who wasn't a receptionist the whole time I was there.

Pay is 100k (prorated for the summer) though, but I get the impression that there's maximum work expectation and minimum firm culture. Fine for the summer, but not personally my cup of tea in terms of full time. There are definitely jobs out there that pay the same and offer much more.

You seem pretty cavalier about this opportunity for one who struck out. Getting a biglaw or consulting job after graduation isn't exactly in the bag for people who strike out. Am I missing something? Do you go to an elite school?

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:19 pm

Accidental anon, I'm the post above.

Danger Zone · Post by **Danger Zone** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's probably midlaw and not shitlaw, but the atmosphere of the office was iffy at best. I'm pretty sure I was an obvious diversity hire too since I didn't see a single non-white man or female who wasn't a receptionist the whole time I was there.

Pay is 100k (prorated for the summer) though, but I get the impression that there's maximum work expectation and minimum firm culture. Fine for the summer, but not personally my cup of tea in terms of full time. There are definitely jobs out there that pay the same and offer much more.
You seem pretty cavalier about this opportunity for one who strike out. Getting a biglaw or consulting job after graduation isn't exactly in the bag for people who struck out. Am I missing something? Do you go to an elite school?

Seriously, OP needs an attitude adjustment.

OP, you are entitled to nothing. You should be licking the partners' shoes this summer and praying you get an offer.

You are owed nothing, regardless of your school rank or class rank.

FSK · Post by **FSK** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:22 pm

Danger Zone has the right attitude. For the next two years your a grinder hoping for any shot at a full time job. Act like it an own it or you're going get beat out by literally thousands of people who do.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:21 pm

I'm just really weary, sad and exhausted and not sure where to go from here.

Pay is 100k . . . Fine for the summer, but not personally my cup of tea in terms of full time.

This is like hitting a triple, and then saying you'd rather be out, because a home run is better.

edit- user barkschool

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:34 pm

I needed respectable work experience for the summer. I'm glad to have it. I'm more picky about where I want to work full time. The firm I've got is nowhere near the kind of place I would like to start my career, which is why I may seem cavalier about it.

That's not me saying that I'm biglaw or bust or something like that. There are more important things in life than money and preftige. I'm willing to part with those things in exchange for less tangible qualities.

FSK · Post by **FSK** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:45 pm

Quit doubling down on your shitty attitude man. We're harsh, but trying to help.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:56 pm

Quit doubling down on your irrelevant advice?

I get that you're trying to help, you're saying I have a shit attitude and I can see how it comes across that way so I'm trying to clarify.

Why does everything on TLS have to become a bitchfight? We're all different people in different situations, your blanket advice might not be applicable to every situation.

FSK · Post by **FSK** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:03 pm

Read what you just wrote.

Anonymous User wrote: That's not me saying that I'm biglaw or bust or something like that. There are more important things in life than money and preftige. I'm willing to part with those things in exchange for less tangible qualities.

This indicates you don't know where you're at. You're not in a position to choose. Biglaw is long gone for you as a reasonable likelihood. You're likely going to have to take whatever you can scrounge up. This is just how it works.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:11 pm

flawschoolkid wrote:Read what you just wrote.

Anonymous User wrote: That's not me saying that I'm biglaw or bust or something like that. There are more important things in life than money and preftige. I'm willing to part with those things in exchange for less tangible qualities.
This indicates you don't know where you're at. You're not in a position to choose. Biglaw is long gone for you as a reasonable likelihood. You're likely going to have to take whatever you can scrounge up. This is just how it works.

I have many non-law irons in the fire for full time employment. I was tempted to try to get a biglaw gig for a year or two for $, but it's really okay if that doesn't work out.

I still needed something for the summer. Most industries don't hire well-paid summer gigs.

Again, I don't want to bitchfight. Different people, different situations.

Danger Zone · Post by **Danger Zone** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:17 pm

Lol fuck this OP

Struck out, now what? Forum

Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Register for access!

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Register now!

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Register now, it's still FREE!

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Re: Struck out, now what?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?