Disclose both, one, or neither? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi everyone,

I know these sorts of questions have been asked many times, and that the general consensus is to just disclose, but I just wanted to get everyone's take on whether I should even bother disclosing one/both of these events.

1. About 6 weeks ago I was pulled over in New York and was issued a citation for improper cell phone use. I plead not guilty, as I really don't believe I did anything wrong, and my hearing date is scheduled for late 2016. I know that this is ordinarily something that should be disclosed, but must I disclose this given that I have not been found guilty of anything yet? Or should I wait until my hearing and disclose it if I am actually found guilty of it at that point? Or should I just disclose now what has already happened?

2. I was in Thailand last month and rented a motorcycle. I was pulled over by Thai police on a rural road for a "random documents check." While I had my New York driver license, I did not have a AAA international driving permit. Having researched the necessity of having this before I left for my trip, I got the sense that as long as one was coming from a country that issued driver licenses using the Roman alphabet, the international permit wasn't required. Anyway, I was told in very broken English that my New York license wasn't sufficient, and I was made to pay a bribe of about 28USD on the side of the road, which the officer pocketed. While I did not receive any sort of ticket or receipt, another officer did copy down information from my driver license for about 5 minutes. I have no idea how thorough a background check the New York bar does, but even so should I just disclose this? Or is the chance that they would ever find out about this roadside transaction so remote that it would look ridiculous on a disclosure statement?

Thanks everyone.

[Thrive]

lol come on dude

[ManoftheHour]

lol come on dude

[Anonymous User]

The ethical thing is to disclose both. You probably already know this, and are not here for ethical advice. You don't want to lie, but you want practical advice. For (1) you should 100% disclose. It's very, very easy to find out, they will find out and it's unlikely to be a big deal. Talking on your cell while driving isn't really what they would be interested to find. If anything, your availing yourself to whoever calls whenever on the road could make you a better lawyer, because you'll always be available for your clients (joking).

The second one is more difficult. I don't know how easy it would be to find out Thailand criminal records, or how they'd even know you were in Thailand. It's also not a big deal but highly unlike to be found out and may be interpreted as a pattern of reckless driving. However, I would never advise anyone to lie or be misleading so advise you to disclose.

[rpupkin]

Disclose for what purpose? What is the context here?

If it's for C&F purposes, does the questionnaire in your state require you to report traffic infractions? Because, depending on how "improper cell phone" use is classified, it may just be a run-of-the-mill moving violation. You would not have to disclose that in my state.

As for your traffic stop/bribe in Thailand, I cannot imagine the circumstances in which it would be a good idea to disclose the incident. Just forget it.

[ManoftheHour]

Disclose for what purpose? What is the context here?

If it's for C&F purposes, does the questionnaire in your state require you to report traffic infractions? Because, depending on how "improper cell phone" use is classified, it may just be a run-of-the-mill moving violation. You would not have to disclose that in my state.

As for your traffic stop/bribe in Thailand, I cannot imagine the circumstances in which it would be a good idea to disclose the incident. Just forget it.

This.

[Anonymous User]

Disclose everything that the reviewers could possibly interpret as needing to be closed. Always err on the side of candor.

If you were told that the payment for the Thailand incident was a fine, not a bribe, then I think you can discuss it as paying a fine. Or if you think that it was not legitimately a fine payment, then I think you can note the lack of clarity between whether you were paying a fine or whether you were acquiescing to being extorted. But, there is a difference between engaging in bribery to avoid accountability and being a victim of extortion conducted under color of law. If you were extorted under color of law, I think you'll want to write the description sufficiently carefully that nobody would misread it as engaging in bribery to avoid accountability for a crime that you committed.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I jaywalked across the street today while no one was looking. Should I disclose this?

[rpupkin]

I jaywalked across the street today while no one was looking. Should I disclose this?

Yes. When I was in third grade, my friend's older brother (who was in fifth grade) said that I had to give him my lunch money because I had committed the crime of being a huge dork. I disclosed on my C&F application BECAUSE CANDOR. #DiscloseEverything

[zot1]

Disclose for what purpose? What is the context here?

If it's for C&F purposes, does the questionnaire in your state require you to report traffic infractions? Because, depending on how "improper cell phone" use is classified, it may just be a run-of-the-mill moving violation. You would not have to disclose that in my state.

As for your traffic stop/bribe in Thailand, I cannot imagine the circumstances in which it would be a good idea to disclose the incident. Just forget it.

This.

[Babum]

Hi everyone,

I know these sorts of questions have been asked many times, and that the general consensus is to just disclose, but I just wanted to get everyone's take on whether I should even bother disclosing one/both of these events.

1. About 6 weeks ago I was pulled over in New York and was issued a citation for improper cell phone use. I plead not guilty, as I really don't believe I did anything wrong, and my hearing date is scheduled for late 2016. I know that this is ordinarily something that should be disclosed, but must I disclose this given that I have not been found guilty of anything yet? Or should I wait until my hearing and disclose it if I am actually found guilty of it at that point? Or should I just disclose now what has already happened?

2. I was in Thailand last month and rented a motorcycle. I was pulled over by Thai police on a rural road for a "random documents check." While I had my New York driver license, I did not have a AAA international driving permit. Having researched the necessity of having this before I left for my trip, I got the sense that as long as one was coming from a country that issued driver licenses using the Roman alphabet, the international permit wasn't required. Anyway, I was told in very broken English that my New York license wasn't sufficient, and I was made to pay a bribe of about 28USD on the side of the road, which the officer pocketed. While I did not receive any sort of ticket or receipt, another officer did copy down information from my driver license for about 5 minutes. I have no idea how thorough a background check the New York bar does, but even so should I just disclose this? Or is the chance that they would ever find out about this roadside transaction so remote that it would look ridiculous on a disclosure statement?

Thanks everyone.

For next time, when a foreign officer tries to get a bribe, tell them to write the fine/arrest you and that you will appeal the decision. That usually solves most of it. + You are a foreign citizen (a tourist of sorts), so rest assured that in most countries (I am looking at you North Korea) officers are specifically instructed not to mess with foreigners.

[CanadianWolf]

If you disclose both, some readers may wonder why your method of handling these types of matters was unsuccessful with the New York officer.

Hopefully you've learned from the first experience to maintain an unregistered cell phone when conducting your affairs in an illicit manner. Then, at the very least, you could expect to receive a warning as a gesture of professional courtesy.

[bruinfan10]

Hi everyone,

I know these sorts of questions have been asked many times, and that the general consensus is to just disclose, but I just wanted to get everyone's take on whether I should even bother disclosing one/both of these events.

1. About 6 weeks ago I was pulled over in New York and was issued a citation for improper cell phone use. I plead not guilty, as I really don't believe I did anything wrong, and my hearing date is scheduled for late 2016. I know that this is ordinarily something that should be disclosed, but must I disclose this given that I have not been found guilty of anything yet? Or should I wait until my hearing and disclose it if I am actually found guilty of it at that point? Or should I just disclose now what has already happened?

2. I was in Thailand last month and rented a motorcycle. I was pulled over by Thai police on a rural road for a "random documents check." While I had my New York driver license, I did not have a AAA international driving permit. Having researched the necessity of having this before I left for my trip, I got the sense that as long as one was coming from a country that issued driver licenses using the Roman alphabet, the international permit wasn't required. Anyway, I was told in very broken English that my New York license wasn't sufficient, and I was made to pay a bribe of about 28USD on the side of the road, which the officer pocketed. While I did not receive any sort of ticket or receipt, another officer did copy down information from my driver license for about 5 minutes. I have no idea how thorough a background check the New York bar does, but even so should I just disclose this? Or is the chance that they would ever find out about this roadside transaction so remote that it would look ridiculous on a disclosure statement?

Thanks everyone.

For next time, when a foreign officer tries to get a bribe, tell them to write the fine/arrest you and that you will appeal the decision. That usually solves most of it. + You are a foreign citizen (a tourist of sorts), so rest assured that in most countries (I am looking at you North Korea) officers are specifically instructed not to mess with foreigners.

JFC. there's a lot of bad advice on TLS but this...

[Bildungsroman]

Disclose on what? This is the employment forum; are you asking whether to disclose these to an employer? We'd have to know what the employer asked to answer that question.

[rpupkin]

For next time, when a foreign officer tries to get a bribe, tell them to write the fine/arrest you and that you will appeal the decision. That usually solves most of it. + You are a foreign citizen (a tourist of sorts), so rest assured that in most countries (I am looking at you North Korea) officers are specifically instructed not to mess with foreigners.

JFC. there's a lot of bad advice on TLS but this...

Yeah. This advice was so horrible that I assumed it was trolling/satire. "If you're in a totalitarian police state, refuse the officer's request and instead tell them to arrest you!"