Dept of Homeland Security Honors Program Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi.

I would like to know if anyone has any info on the topic above. I recently got offered a position as a 2L intern for the spring/summer with DHS and plan to accept. The interviewers gave me some basic info on the Honors Program and mentioned that this internship may very well lead to a great recommendation on my behalf into the Honors Program. Would anybody have any insight into how competitive the program is for an above median student at a TTT with a recommendation from a supervising attorney? Work experience includes an internship with a small/rural DA's office last summer. No Journal or Trial Team. Just trying to figure out if this is something I should realistically aim for. Thanks

[Nebby]

All gov't honors programs are competitive and you should aim for it.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Thanks for the response. So I'm guessing it's really tough to gauge what exactly they're looking for in an applicant? I may not be top ten percent and law review/trial team but I do have a lot of public sector experience on my resume and I plan on doing an externship with the DAs office I interned at so hopefully real trial experience gets my foot in the door along with a solid recommendation

[haus]

I understand that finding a job, sometimes almost any job is vitally important, but any conversation about working at DHS should point out that it is not a good place.

http://www.defenseone.com/management/20 ... ty/122546/

Their leadership is confused, it is unlikely they will ever have much mission success, and employee moral stinks and will likely stay that way. Although I am a firm believer that the government can make people's lives better, I would not be opposed to shutting down DHS.

[los blancos]

^Still probably a much better career move than most firms, I'd think.

[FSK]

I've heard and seens lots of opprotunities for people, early and midcareer opprotunities, with cybersecurity experience. That area is going to explode, so see if you can't pick that up at DHS

[haus]

I've heard and seens lots of opprotunities for people, early and midcareer opprotunities, with cybersecurity experience. That area is going to explode, so see if you can't pick that up at DHS

Pro tip: "cyber" is a bullshit term.

If you are talking with attorneys or someone in senior management who has never done useful work, than this is the go to term.

If you meet with analyst or security engineers and talk about 'cyber' they will write you off as another worthless paper pusher.

ETA:
By a numbers count DHS likely has the most information security related attorney opportunities, but they seem to be trying hard to become the Cooley School of Law of the government.

[zot1]

Hi.

I would like to know if anyone has any info on the topic above. I recently got offered a position as a 2L intern for the spring/summer with DHS and plan to accept. The interviewers gave me some basic info on the Honors Program and mentioned that this internship may very well lead to a great recommendation on my behalf into the Honors Program. Would anybody have any insight into how competitive the program is for an above median student at a TTT with a recommendation from a supervising attorney? Work experience includes an internship with a small/rural DA's office last summer. No Journal or Trial Team. Just trying to figure out if this is something I should realistically aim for. Thanks

A few things... First, there are people who intern both years for the same agency and still don't get picked up for the honors programs. It blows, but it happens given the competitiveness of the programs. Second, having federal government experience will help you overall when you apply to all the honors programs as a 3L. Third, most honors programs care more about your ranking than your school's rankings. Even if you're not top third (what most agencies ask for), if you have experience that compensates for that, you could get picked anyway. Fourth, some agencies do not even ask for rec letters, but you should still kick ass at your internship because law school is a three-year long interview for a post-grad job.

I hope that helps and congrats on your internship!!

P.S. I know you were asking specifically to the DHS HP, but I've learned that putting all your eggs in one basket is just a recipe for disaster, so my advice is not narrowed to that specific program.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Thanks for the insight it's much appreciated. Are there any fed attorneys out there that can testify as to just how tough/random the hiring process is? Is practicing at the fed level usually something you do your entire career? If not, what are the typical exit options? Specifically, firm options?

[zot1]

OP here.

Thanks for the insight it's much appreciated. Are there any fed attorneys out there that can testify as to just how tough/random the hiring process is? Is practicing at the fed level usually something you do your entire career? If not, what are the typical exit options? Specifically, firm options?

How tough/random: I just told you.

For entire career: like everything else, yes and no. Most attorneys I know in the service have been with the government for a reaaaaally long time. I plan to too. But sometimes, shit happens or you have too many kids who go to college, and then suddenly lateralling to a firm makes sense. But my feeling is that unless the going gets really tough, people make an effort to stay.

Exit options: the options are definitely there once you get some sort of expertise. Most well-paying firms do defense which is also what most government lawyers do (some prosecute as well or do both). Depending on the kind of experience you get, you will be competitive for like positions. For example, an AUSA will be competitive for a trial heavy firm. An EPA lawyer will likely be competitive for a firm doing enviro work. I think you get where I'm going with this.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks again for the response. I guess what I'm trying to really figure out is whether I have a better shot at this by graduating next year as opposed to an applicant who graduated a few years ago as the economy and legal job market have improved. My school has a clinical program where I can work for the department with my own caseload as a certified intern (basically a practicing attorney) so I am really looking into that. Also, how strict is the FBI level background check? Do men in black suits really visit the applicant's friends and family with questions? Is it really an automatic disqualifier if an applicant smoked a little pot in college?

[Anonymous User]

I don't think the chances are very different now than in the past - there are still a ton of applicants for a small number of spots.

Yes, FBI agents do go around and talk to your employers, references, family members, and neighbors. As for drug use, you have to disclose any use in the seven years before the background check. The only auto-dings I know of are post-bar drug use and not paying taxes, but I'm sure sufficiently serious drug use in those 7 years could pose a problem.

[zot1]

Thanks again for the response. I guess what I'm trying to really figure out is whether I have a better shot at this by graduating next year as opposed to an applicant who graduated a few years ago as the economy and legal job market have improved. My school has a clinical program where I can work for the department with my own caseload as a certified intern (basically a practicing attorney) so I am really looking into that. Also, how strict is the FBI level background check? Do men in black suits really visit the applicant's friends and family with questions? Is it really an automatic disqualifier if an applicant smoked a little pot in college?

Hmmm you have some interesting questions.

Better chances: you're asking something here that everyone can only speculate to. Maybe instead of 100 applicant for one spot, there will be 80. Would that increase your individual chances? Sure, but it also does for the other 79 people waiting in line.

Externships: practical experience is always a plus so if you can do it, do it.

Background check: I don't think they go to anyone's houses... They have better things to do. However, they do ask for contact info for several references for all sorts of things (jobs, places you lived in, etc.). They don't always contact everyone, but they could.

Pot: I'm not sure what to tell you here. Technically people say disclose everything. I know people who kick themselves for disclosing a minor thing and wish they had lied. Some people do lie. I won't tell you one way or another. I will say the risk is that if for some whatever reason your agency finds out you lied on your app, that gives them grounds to fire you. So knowing the risk, do what feels right for you.

[zot1]

I don't think the chances are very different now than in the past - there are still a ton of applicants for a small number of spots.

Yes, FBI agents do go around and talk to your employers, references, family members, and neighbors. As for drug use, you have to disclose any use in the seven years before the background check. The only auto-dings I know of are post-bar drug use and not paying taxes, but I'm sure sufficiently serious drug use in those 7 years could pose a problem.

That's very interesting. My references didn't mention they were contacted in person. But maybe they do it differently for certain people. Not sure.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think the chances are very different now than in the past - there are still a ton of applicants for a small number of spots.

Yes, FBI agents do go around and talk to your employers, references, family members, and neighbors. As for drug use, you have to disclose any use in the seven years before the background check. The only auto-dings I know of are post-bar drug use and not paying taxes, but I'm sure sufficiently serious drug use in those 7 years could pose a problem.

That's very interesting. My references didn't mention they were contacted in person. But maybe they do it differently for certain people. Not sure.

Which check did you get? I have a national security one - the SF-86 form, which I'm presuming DHS would use as well - and yeah, they go around and talk to your references etc. in person, including your neighbors (ideally - the apartment complex where I lived at the time wouldn't let them do so). There's one that's like a level down in intensity where they may not do all that (public trust, maybe?).

[zot1]

I don't think the chances are very different now than in the past - there are still a ton of applicants for a small number of spots.

Yes, FBI agents do go around and talk to your employers, references, family members, and neighbors. As for drug use, you have to disclose any use in the seven years before the background check. The only auto-dings I know of are post-bar drug use and not paying taxes, but I'm sure sufficiently serious drug use in those 7 years could pose a problem.

That's very interesting. My references didn't mention they were contacted in person. But maybe they do it differently for certain people. Not sure.

Which check did you get? I have a national security one - the SF-86 form, which I'm presuming DHS would use as well - and yeah, they go around and talk to your references etc. in person, including your neighbors (ideally - the apartment complex where I lived at the time wouldn't let them do so). There's one that's like a level down in intensity where they may not do all that (public trust, maybe?).

National clearance as well. Now I'm curious

[Anonymous User]

Interesting. I guess it varies by agency - everyone in mine has the FBI interviews etc.

[hazel2014]

I've recently applied for the position too (summer). How long did you have to wait for the interview after submitting your application?