C&F Question/me trying to save $24 and a bunch of paperwork Forum

[Anonymous User]

My C&F app asks:

Have you EVER IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE been arrested, given a written warning, or taken into custody, or accused, formally or informally, of the violation of a law for an offense other than traffic violations?

One time in high school I got called down to the guidance office so a school cop could ask me if I stole a clarinet out of the band room. The cop was SUPER SERIOUS about his questioning tactics and accused me of stealing it (I believe the line was "we know you stole it so just admit it"). I didn't steal it, told the cop that, and they sent me back to class. Never heard anything else. Still kind of insulted that someone thought I might have done it 10 years later.

Is that an informal accusation? I am totally willing to disclose it, but the app wants a criminal history report ($24) and a court letter stating that there is no arresting officer's report, complaint, indictment, trial disposition, sentence, or appeal (there was no court, so I wouldn't even know who to call).

So, is it possible I'm reading this question too charitably and over-disclosing? If not, should I just call the county court where my high school was and ask them to send me a letter certifying that there is no record for this thing they weren't even involved in?

[Desert Fox]

[dixiecupdrinking]

Is it an actual cop/peace officer or basically a security guard with no law enforcement powers? If the latter I can't imagine you need to disclose. It can't possibly mean that if anyone with or without any official authority has ever suggested in any context that you might have broken the law, you have to disclose. I don't know wtf it means to be "informally accused" of a crime. Like your roommate goes "hey I think you stole my phone" once and then he finds it and is like oops my bad, and you have to report that?

[Johann]

yeah youre fine not diclosing that.

[ballouttacontrol]

holy shit is this normal for C&F?

I've been "arrested"/detained more times than I could possibly remember. Do they REALLY mean arrested, as in, any time you are not free to leave? I mean, like, every fucking college kid was easily arrested millions of times at random frat parties and shit if that's the case

Or it just like, check yes, and then they just run your criminal record or whatever?

[seashell.economy]

holy shit is this normal for C&F?

I've been "arrested"/detained more times than I could possibly remember. Do they REALLY mean arrested, as in, any time you are not free to leave? I mean, like, every fucking college kid was easily arrested millions of times at random frat parties and shit if that's the case

Or it just like, check yes, and then they just run your criminal record or whatever?

You're going to have a long C&F letter...

[Anonymous User]

I was "arrested" and taken in by cops when I was 15 for underage drinking in a park. My mom came and got me and the cops told her that it was 'just to scare me' and not to worry. Nothing further ever came of it (no court date, ticket, etc.). The cops were big city cops (think NYC, Chicago, LA) and knew that we were being a bunch of idiots.

Is this disclosure worthy? Could this have any effect on passing my C&F?

[Anonymous User]

It seems like everything people have said ITT fall within the plain meaning of the question. That's got to mean it's dishonest not to disclose and provide the required documentation, right?

[Dcc617]

Obviously not an expert, but I'd think the criteria for inclusion would be "if I asked the authorities about this, would they have any idea what I'm talking about?"

Like, getting taken home by the police at age 15 would probably not count, since if you asked the station for paperwork then they would have no idea about what you were talking about.

If you were a subject of interest in an investigation of a crime but never formally charged, then that should he included because the police would known what you're talking about and have records.

But again, not an expert at all, just thinking this through haha.

[NotMyRealName09]

Jesus, the basic answer to every single C&F question ever is "disclose." Sure this is BS, and I am sure there is no record of your little interaction with the cop, and I have no doubt this will not ever be mentioned by anyone again, but just say "yes," explain, and pull your record and send it in.

Yes, you were informally accused by a cop of theft, based solely on how you described it.

[Single-Malt-Liquor]

Call a disciplinary attorney and feel the relief as he laughs at your question and refuses to take your money.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus, the basic answer to every single C&F question ever is "disclose." Sure this is BS, and I am sure there is no record of your little interaction with the cop, and I have no doubt this will not ever be mentioned by anyone again, but just say "yes," explain, and pull your record and send it in.

Yes, you were informally accused by a cop of theft, based solely on how you described it.

Just mailed off my $24 check to the cops for an official criminal history report that will say "no records available." I'll call the clerk of court of my high school's county on Monday and try to explain that I need an official letter certifying that they have no idea who I am or what I'm talking about. Smh North Carolina, smh.

[rpupkin]

Just mailed off my $24 check to the cops for an official criminal history report that will say "no records available." I'll call the clerk of court of my high school's county on Monday and try to explain that I need an official letter certifying that they have no idea who I am or what I'm talking about. Smh North Carolina, smh.

This is unnecessary and borderline weird. So you're going to submit a letter from a school official saying they have no idea about whether you were accused of stealing a clarinet? It's almost like you're creating a C&F issue (and thus possibly delaying your application) where none actually exists. This is one of those situations where the "disclose everything" approach isn't advisable.

[Anonymous User]

Just mailed off my $24 check to the cops for an official criminal history report that will say "no records available." I'll call the clerk of court of my high school's county on Monday and try to explain that I need an official letter certifying that they have no idea who I am or what I'm talking about. Smh North Carolina, smh.

This is unnecessary and borderline weird. So you're going to submit a letter from a school official saying they have no idea about whether you were accused of stealing a clarinet? It's almost like you're creating a C&F issue (and thus possibly delaying your application) where none actually exists. This is one of those situations where the "disclose everything" approach isn't advisable.

I mean, I agree. But I was thinking that it's possible that the school has a record of this somewhere (it was a pretty formal questioning, they even had an assistant principal present iirc). And if I'm reading and answering the question honestly, the answer is yes, I was informally accused by a law enforcement officer of theft.

Once you answer yes, though, you've got to provide the documentation they require. I get space to explain, so I wrote pretty much what I wrote in the OP. I figure two official docs saying "this guy has never done anything in our state ever" will only serve to prove that it was a non-issue.

I made this thread figuring then if I got one response saying I should probably disclose, then it's possible that I could get a bar examiner who will think I should have disclosed (if it turns out this is on record at the school somewhere). If that's weird, then they need to word the question less shittily.

[rpupkin]

Just mailed off my $24 check to the cops for an official criminal history report that will say "no records available." I'll call the clerk of court of my high school's county on Monday and try to explain that I need an official letter certifying that they have no idea who I am or what I'm talking about. Smh North Carolina, smh.

This is unnecessary and borderline weird. So you're going to submit a letter from a school official saying they have no idea about whether you were accused of stealing a clarinet? It's almost like you're creating a C&F issue (and thus possibly delaying your application) where none actually exists. This is one of those situations where the "disclose everything" approach isn't advisable.

I mean, I agree. But I was thinking that it's possible that the school has a record of this somewhere (it was a pretty formal questioning, they even had an assistant principal present iirc). And if I'm reading and answering the question honestly, the answer is yes, I was informally accused by a law enforcement officer of theft.

Once you answer yes, though, you've got to provide the documentation they require. I get space to explain, so I wrote pretty much what I wrote in the OP. I figure two official docs saying "this guy has never done anything in our state ever" will only serve to prove that it was a non-issue.

I made this thread figuring then if I got one response saying I should probably disclose, then it's possible that I could get a bar examiner who will think I should have disclosed (if it turns out this is on record at the school somewhere). If that's weird, then they need to word the question less shittily.

You're just going to have to use your judgment. Are you going to disclose the time your little brother complained to your Mommy that you hit him? After all, you were informally accused of battery. The bar examiners wouldn't care about that and they likewise won't care about the case of the missing clarinet.

[North]

I'm applying to North Carolina. Says right on the cover of the app: "It is crucial that you honestly and fully answer all questions. Your responses on your application are indicators of your candor and honesty. An honest ‘yes’ answer to a question on your application is not definitive as to the Board’s assessment of your present moral character and fitness, but a dishonest ‘no’ answer may be definitive."

With that in mind, I'd say an official conversation (that there might be a record of) with a LEO where you get accused of a crime is pretty plainly covered by at least the language of that question and probably the spirit too. Little brothers telling on you? Not really the same thing. Dunno about that analogy dude.

[rpupkin]

With that in mind, I'd say an official conversation (that there might be a record of) with a LEO where you get accused of a crime is pretty plainly covered by at least the language of that question and probably the spirit too. Little brothers telling on you? Not really the same thing. Dunno about that analogy dude.

I don't know what "an official conversation" means. And being asked questions by the police does not mean you are accused of a crime, formally or otherwise. And how could there be a "school record" of this? There was no hearing, no letter to the kid's parents, or anything else that would trigger the creation of a record.

If the OP really wants to disclose out of an abundance of caution, that's fine (though it could slow down the processing of his app if the examiners are confused about what actually happened). But it seems to me that this incident does not fall within either the letter or the spirit of what the C&F question is seeking.

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

Okay, so a couple related questions now that I'm starting to think I might be over disclosing.

Another question asks:

Have you ever been dropped, suspended, warned, placed on scholastic or disciplinary probation, expelled or requested to resign from any school, college or university, or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such school or other institution or requested or advised by any such school or institution to discontinue your studies therein?

Got a few detentions back in high school (I think two for being late and one for getting in a fight), figured they counted as "discipline" by "any school," and wrote a paragraph disclosing them. Should I take that out too?


Then there's this one:

Have you ever violated or been formally charged with a violation of the honor code of any educational facility?

Got caught looking at my notes during some test in HS and the teacher gave me a 0/100 on it. Figured that was at least a "violation." Disclose?

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

I asked the BLE about the question in the OP and they clarified:

Informal would be anything done in writing, but not actually litigious. In other words, anything that may have made its way into a record somewhere: i.e. in school, in a newspaper, in a business establishment etc.