Reneging Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:27 pm

What would be the consequences of reneging on a V39 for a V10? Does this even make sense to do?

ETA: Both NY

chalky · Post by **chalky** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:28 pm

Post removed...

californiauser · Post by **californiauser** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:28 pm

It's okay to renege on a v53 for a V6, but definitely not a V39 for a V10.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:36 pm

californiauser wrote:It's okay to renege on a v53 for a V6, but definitely not a V39 for a V10.

Just trying to name the firm's without potentially outting myself...

Anomynous · Post by **Anomynous** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:38 pm

Page 4 of the C&F application for most states has a question about whether you have reneged any offers after accepting them. They also provide a methodology in the appendix of the application (page 79 in the New York version) that applicants must use to determine whether their reneging constitutes a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct. I am not sure what it is for other states, but in New York, in order for a reneging to be acceptable, the Vault rank of the firm you switched to must be less than one third of the Vault rank of the firm whose offer you reneged minus four. So, for example, if you reneged a V60 firm for a V15 firm, 15 is less than 16 (i.e., 60/3 – 4) so it would be okay. In your case, whether your reneging is acceptable depends on the rank of the firm you’re considering; 39/3-4 is 9, so you would be okay as long as the firm you’re considering is V8 or better. You have to be careful, though, because Vault rankings change from year to year so even if your reneging is acceptable now, it might not be in a year when you’re filling out the C&F application.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:58 pm

It's Sunday and you're a big lawyer. Don't you have work to do?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:28 pm

Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...

It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.

Winter is Coming · Post by **Winter is Coming** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:44 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:50 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.

Yes, the V10 is Band 1 or 2 in the practice areas I am interested and the lower ranked ranked in band 4 or band 5. My current firm pays market, but I am mostly interested in exiting out of NYC to another market--think Chicago/LA type market--where my current firm does not have an office so I want to know if the increased name "prestige" will help with that. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to lateraling down for the chance at partner (long shot I know and hard to say how serious this interest is without having practiced but I wouldn't want to close those doors without exploring it). Also the V10 is really good in some practice areas that my current firm doesn't really practice.

So will I get any flak for this? Or am I good to go?

ETA: both firms pay market and are 100% offer. I am slightly concerned about my current firm because of how it didn't fare the best in the recession. I think my current firm also matched the DPW bonus scale and I think it would match if salaries rise but it would obviously be far more costly for them to do so since the V10's PPP is around 3M and the PPP of my current firm is more 1.3 ish

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:34 am

I think its pretty obvious the lower ranked firm is FF and the V10 is either Cleary or Kirkland.

SemperLegal · Post by **SemperLegal** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:15 am

For a SA? Have you tried splitting?

If not, is there a reason to switch other than ranking? I.e. compensation, firm stability, good info leading you to beleive better fit (not just one associate you thought was cool), etc?

SemperLegal · Post by **SemperLegal** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.
Yes, the V10 is Band 1 or 2 in the practice areas I am interested and the lower ranked ranked in band 4 or band 5. My current firm pays market, but I am mostly interested in exiting out of NYC to another market--think Chicago/LA type market--where my current firm does not have an office so I want to know if the increased name "prestige" will help with that. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to lateraling down for the chance at partner (long shot I know and hard to say how serious this interest is without having practiced but I wouldn't want to close those doors without exploring it). Also the V10 is really good in some practice areas that my current firm doesn't really practice.

So will I get any flak for this? Or am I good to go?

ETA: both firms pay market and are 100% offer. I am slightly concerned about my current firm because of how it didn't fare the best in the recession. I think my current firm also matched the DPW bonus scale and I think it would match if salaries rise but it would obviously be far more costly for them to do so since the V10's PPP is around 3M and the PPP of my current firm is more 1.3 ish

Ask to split and go from there.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:08 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.
Yes, the V10 is Band 1 or 2 in the practice areas I am interested and the lower ranked ranked in band 4 or band 5. My current firm pays market, but I am mostly interested in exiting out of NYC to another market--think Chicago/LA type market--where my current firm does not have an office so I want to know if the increased name "prestige" will help with that. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to lateraling down for the chance at partner (long shot I know and hard to say how serious this interest is without having practiced but I wouldn't want to close those doors without exploring it). Also the V10 is really good in some practice areas that my current firm doesn't really practice.

So will I get any flak for this? Or am I good to go?

ETA: both firms pay market and are 100% offer. I am slightly concerned about my current firm because of how it didn't fare the best in the recession. I think my current firm also matched the DPW bonus scale and I think it would match if salaries rise but it would obviously be far more costly for them to do so since the V10's PPP is around 3M and the PPP of my current firm is more 1.3 ish
Ask to split and go from there.

Splitting is off the table--I screwed up and already accepted at the lower firm. Could I really ask for a split now?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:10 pm

Is there some way this could actually bite me back?

SemperLegal · Post by **SemperLegal** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.
Yes, the V10 is Band 1 or 2 in the practice areas I am interested and the lower ranked ranked in band 4 or band 5. My current firm pays market, but I am mostly interested in exiting out of NYC to another market--think Chicago/LA type market--where my current firm does not have an office so I want to know if the increased name "prestige" will help with that. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to lateraling down for the chance at partner (long shot I know and hard to say how serious this interest is without having practiced but I wouldn't want to close those doors without exploring it). Also the V10 is really good in some practice areas that my current firm doesn't really practice.

So will I get any flak for this? Or am I good to go?

ETA: both firms pay market and are 100% offer. I am slightly concerned about my current firm because of how it didn't fare the best in the recession. I think my current firm also matched the DPW bonus scale and I think it would match if salaries rise but it would obviously be far more costly for them to do so since the V10's PPP is around 3M and the PPP of my current firm is more 1.3 ish
Ask to split and go from there.
Splitting is off the table--I screwed up and already accepted at the lower firm. Could I really ask for a split now?

Yes. Better then reneging.

gk101 · Post by **gk101** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumping for anyone who will take my question seriously...
It's not a serious question; the vault rankings are meaningless. Is there a substantial different in pay or strength of your chosen practice group between the two firms? V-X versus V-Y means nothing to us; give a query of substance and a serious answer you shall receive.
Yes, the V10 is Band 1 or 2 in the practice areas I am interested and the lower ranked ranked in band 4 or band 5. My current firm pays market, but I am mostly interested in exiting out of NYC to another market--think Chicago/LA type market--where my current firm does not have an office so I want to know if the increased name "prestige" will help with that. I also wouldn't be entirely opposed to lateraling down for the chance at partner (long shot I know and hard to say how serious this interest is without having practiced but I wouldn't want to close those doors without exploring it). Also the V10 is really good in some practice areas that my current firm doesn't really practice.

So will I get any flak for this? Or am I good to go?

ETA: both firms pay market and are 100% offer. I am slightly concerned about my current firm because of how it didn't fare the best in the recession. I think my current firm also matched the DPW bonus scale and I think it would match if salaries rise but it would obviously be far more costly for them to do so since the V10's PPP is around 3M and the PPP of my current firm is more 1.3 ish

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:38 pm

I reneged. It didn't feel great, but it hasn't hurt me. It's a burnt bridge, but the world isn't short on NYC law firms, and it sounds like you're looking to leave NYC anyways. There are ways it could come back in the future, but they're not likely. (E.g., if the person you interviewed with at v39 laterals to a firm you're interviewing with in Chicago in a few years, that might not work out great for you.)

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I reneged. It didn't feel great, but it hasn't hurt me. It's a burnt bridge, but the world isn't short on NYC law firms, and it sounds like you're looking to leave NYC anyways. There are ways it could come back in the future, but they're not likely. (E.g., if the person you interviewed with at v39 laterals to a firm you're interviewing with in Chicago in a few years, that might not work out great for you.)

Thanks for giving your experience. Did you tell the new firm? If they found out you reneged (either through you or someone else) what was their response? Thanks!

Throwawayrenege · Post by **Throwawayrenege** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I reneged. It didn't feel great, but it hasn't hurt me. It's a burnt bridge, but the world isn't short on NYC law firms, and it sounds like you're looking to leave NYC anyways. There are ways it could come back in the future, but they're not likely. (E.g., if the person you interviewed with at v39 laterals to a firm you're interviewing with in Chicago in a few years, that might not work out great for you.)

OP here, could you PM me so we can discuss in a bit more detail...

Don't mind other people jumping on the thread.

pworx · Post by **pworx** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:26 am

Throwawayrenege wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I reneged. It didn't feel great, but it hasn't hurt me. It's a burnt bridge, but the world isn't short on NYC law firms, and it sounds like you're looking to leave NYC anyways. There are ways it could come back in the future, but they're not likely. (E.g., if the person you interviewed with at v39 laterals to a firm you're interviewing with in Chicago in a few years, that might not work out great for you.)
OP here, could you PM me so we can discuss in a bit more detail...

Don't mind other people jumping on the thread.

Not OP, but would also appreciate a PM

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