DF Thread Forum

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

confirmed NYC -> 190k

[bearsfan23]

Cool thread dude

[Nekrowizard]

I always feel enriched whenever I read a DF thread. He teaches me. He teaches us all.

[jewkidontheblock]

800 janitors for 1500 schools? Sounds like a supply issue... not quite an issue in the legal field

[chalky]

Post removed...

[sesto elemento]

I always feel enriched whenever I read a DF thread. He teaches me. He teaches us all.

[Desert Fox]

[Johann]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

[84651846190]

but my mother says i'm prestigious

[jbagelboy]

Unfortunately they don't appear to be hiring

[TTTooKewl]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

Janitors and nurses have to clean up shit (literally) as part of their job. No thx.

[84651846190]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

Janitors and nurses have to clean up shit (literally) as part of their job. No thx.

What exactly do you think lawyers do?

[Companion Cube]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

Janitors and nurses have to clean up shit (literally) as part of their job. No thx.

What exactly do you think lawyers do?

At least it's metaphorical shit. That's something?

[bearsfan23]

DF hates being a lawyer thread #1000.

We get it already, stop posting this shit in Legal Employment

[Johann]

This thread actually isn't about anyone's dislike of biglaw. This is saying if you are getting into being a lawyer because of the 160k salary you should realize everyone in New York makes 100k. Janitors, soul cycle instructors, Patagonia store managers, everyone. What's the biglaw equivalent in Minneapolis pay? 115k or some shit with 2% raises. Money has left law. It's not in it anymore.

Not to say 115k isn't a lot of money. But relatively, in your 10th year in the field (.3 years of school) you are working 3000 hours (billing 2200 comes at a price) while your Making 200k and you just finished paying off your 250k debt, the engineer putting in 2000 hours all in is making 100k with no debt. Teachers without masters and first year salary is like 77k. I know lawyers that left law to teach and say the money difference doesn't even register because no student loans (what up pslf) and 3 weeks winter break, spring break, and 10 week summer vacay. They also get pensions or whatever they are called to retire after 25/30 years of service. Retire at 50.

[Companion Cube]

This thread actually isn't about anyone's dislike of biglaw. This is saying if you are getting into being a lawyer because of the 160k salary you should realize everyone in New York makes 100k. Janitors, soul cycle instructors, Patagonia store managers, everyone. What's the biglaw equivalent in Minneapolis pay? 115k or some shit with 2% raises. Money has left law. It's not in it anymore.

Not to say 115k isn't a lot of money. But relatively, in your 10th year in the field (.3 years of school) you are working 3000 hours (billing 2200 comes at a price) while your Making 200k and you just finished paying off your 250k debt, the engineer putting in 2000 hours all in is making 100k with no debt. Teachers without masters and first year salary is like 77k. I know lawyers that left law to teach and say the money difference doesn't even register because no student loans (what up pslf) and 3 weeks winter break, spring break, and 10 week summer vacay. They also get pensions or whatever they are called to retire after 25/30 years of service. Retire at 50.

I'm assuming all your numbers are NY numbers? Because teaching salaries are not typically 77k. More like ~48k where I'm from (with a cap of about 55k-with 20 YEARS of experience). Not everywhere is NY, but Biglaw pays like NY in many places that aren't, which can be great for paying off loans IF nothing else.

Is it at least still good resume fodder? Or is it only useful for "exit options" if you beast mode network while you're there?

[WW25]

none of this applies though if you took TLS advice and retook the LSAT till you had a score where you could go to a T14 debt free

[Johann]

Yeah teachers in cities. Teachers get shit on everywhere else with 28k or whatever. Unionized school teachers in Chicago with a masters and more than 10 years of experience avg over 100k. I saw the numbers a couple years ago but it's in the 115k range. 14 weeks guaranteed vacay plus whatever else. My point is lawyers in biglaw really only make good money in 10 cities. And everyone in those cities makes good money even janitors. And the taxes in cities are high. Yeah Texas is the exception to all of this.

Non masters still make good ass money too. Average below 100k barely but I'm sure some beat that.

[Johann]

none of this applies though if you took TLS advice and retook the LSAT till you had a score where you could go to a T14 debt free

Mcorrect you are debt free and only make 50k more than the janitor. If you play out the typical 10 year scenario, the janitor comes out ahead of dead even in probably half the cases or more. Average case is school 3 years while janitor makes 350k. Associate for 3 years and make 175, 200, 250. That's 525 to the janitors 700k. Then you leave biglaw and go somewhere else probably back to your 150k salary on a good day. Maybe you cop a govt 90k salary. Either way you aren't making up the 200k in the next 3 years. That's the no debt solution.

If you stay in biglaw for 7 years and make partner, 66% chance you lose half your money to your divorced spouse. Boom janitor wins.

Edit math fail above. 50k instead of 200k difference.

[WW25]

none of this applies though if you took TLS advice and retook the LSAT till you had a score where you could go to a T14 debt free

Mcorrect you are debt free and only make 50k more than the janitor. If you play out the typical 10 year scenario, the janitor comes out ahead of dead even in probably half the cases or more. Average case is school 3 years while janitor makes 350k. Associate for 3 years and make 175, 200, 250. That's 525 to the janitors 700k. Then you leave biglaw and go somewhere else probably back to your 150k salary on a good day. Maybe you cop a govt 90k salary. Either way you aren't making up the 200k in the next 3 years. That's the no debt solution.

If you stay in biglaw for 7 years and make partner, 66% chance you lose half your money to your divorced spouse. Boom janitor wins.

Edit math fail above. 50k instead of 200k difference.

Moral of the story, TCR is do not get married. In all seriousness, I get what you are saying but think its kind of silly to think that someone would decide fuck it I'll be a janitor instead.

[whats an updog]

How does anyone know what those janitors are making per hour? Isn't the whole point of that story that the janitors are working mad overtime because the districts think it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire other workers?

The idea of making this thread isn't totally dumb because it's kind of funny, but someone lining up to thoroughly defend it like "lol 160k isn't even that much even with no debt" is, actually, pretty dumb.

[Johann]

The moral of the story is not to be a janitor. The moral of the story is the glorious ritzy lawyer salaries people dream of are taken way out of context and this is some context.

[relative]

In NY they start at 45 and slowly ramp up to the 70s+. Pretty sure Chicago is an outlier. Also, isn't the "janitor" in the OP more like an engineer for the school? The true janitor's (clean up bathrooms etc) start at 20-25k and ramp up slowly, with massive overtime.

http://schools.nyc.gov/nr/rdonlyres/edd ... salary.pdf

[jbagelboy]

Yeah teachers in cities. Teachers get shit on everywhere else with 28k or whatever. Unionized school teachers in Chicago with a masters and more than 10 years of experience avg over 100k. I saw the numbers a couple years ago but it's in the 115k range. 14 weeks guaranteed vacay plus whatever else. My point is lawyers in biglaw really only make good money in 10 cities. And everyone in those cities makes good money even janitors. And the taxes in cities are high. Yeah Texas is the exception to all of this.

Non masters still make good ass money too. Average below 100k barely but I'm sure some beat that.

In NY they start at 45 and slowly ramp up to the 70s+. Pretty sure Chicago is an outlier. Also, isn't the "janitor" in the OP more like an engineer for the school? The true janitor's (clean up bathrooms etc) start at 20-25k and ramp up slowly, with massive overtime.

http://schools.nyc.gov/nr/rdonlyres/edd ... salary.pdf

I have some family that are teachers in Chicago. It's flat out untrue that they average 115k. A teacher in their fifth year is making high 40k/low 50k; someone in their tenth year is making $70-75k, maybe. Some teachers get up to six figures when they chair the math dept or take on other administrative responsibilities, ect.

I love the janitor schtick but everyone here including Johann must recognize that the seniority principles applicable to big law also apply to all these other professions, which also have high burnout.. Someone who graduated from college and becomes a janitor will work for many years in a number of positions before they can accrue the hours and leverage to make $100. The NY public school janitorial staff is very top heavy since they haven't hired new personnel in years. So assuming a flat six figure rate for the janitor compared to associate $175k, $185k, 210k, 245k, ect., is ridiculous.