Big law. Entertainment/Video Games. Startups. Taking Q's. Forum

[PwnLaw]

Hey All,

This is probably going to be my last Q&A for some time. Figured I'd close the loop. Search my name as I've down a few of these before.

For background:
- T14 to AmLaw100. Started out doing entertainment work in LA.
- Started up new industry practice at the firm. Built it up to ~500-750k book by my 3rd year.
- Left my 3rd year for startups. Business development.
- Moved into product.
- Rose to CEO.
- Sold the company.
- Just finished raising a seed round for the next company.

I can answer questions about the above for a bit. I'll check in tomorrow and maybe Saturday.

[Anonymous User]

Age when made CEO? Size of startup that you ended up selling? I'm assuming industry practice was video games? How is this different necessarily from existing IP/entertainment/general transactional groups?

[instride91]

How much $$$ are you pulling in per year now?

[notgreat]

Wow, thanks for doing this. Seems like you carved out a great early career for yourself.

How did you start an industry practice group and build a 500k to 700k book of business as a junior?

[t-14orbust]

Tag

[Anonymous User]

Did you consider staying in law after your BigLaw entertainment work in LA? Did you do entertainment lit or transactions? Did you have boutique exit options that you chose not to take and why? Did you enjoy your practice while at the firm?

[PwnLaw]

Age when made CEO? Size of startup that you ended up selling? I'm assuming industry practice was video games? How is this different necessarily from existing IP/entertainment/general transactional groups?

Early 30's.

Video games.

It's not really. You just need to know the nomenclature and the somewhat idiosyncratic terms surrounding IP deals in the space. There are some fun areas of law around things like virtual currencies, but they don't occupy a whole lot of your time. Knowing the platform rules really well isn't a bad idea either.

[PwnLaw]

How much $$$ are you pulling in per year now?

I don't pay myself much. Low 6 digits. Paying myself doesn't help me since it just dilutes me out. Goal is to save as much $ for employee salaries as possible.

I have had offers for shenanigans pay though. I like building companies too much though.

[PwnLaw]

Wow, thanks for doing this. Seems like you carved out a great early career for yourself.

How did you start an industry practice group and build a 500k to 700k book of business as a junior?

I talked about this a lot in prior threads, feel free to look them up for more details.

At a high level, I asked the firm for support and they gave me some resources to work with. I used those to build out basic marketing materials and do preliminary PR.

I spent an enormous amount of time building my network (LinkedIn spamming, going to conferences, taking people to lunch). I think I spent something like ~1000 hours my first year on business development. I also spent a giant chunk of time on researching the industry. I read all of the 10q and 10k filings. Read all the IPO filings. Any contract I could get my hands on I read and took notes on. Etc. etc.

I didn't pitch services for a long time. I just tried to listen and be helpful whenever I could. Once I got to know enough people things began to grow pretty organically. Hard to say where I would have ended up if I kept at it, but I think I could break a million by my 5th year maybe.

[PwnLaw]

Did you consider staying in law after your BigLaw entertainment work in LA? Did you do entertainment lit or transactions? Did you have boutique exit options that you chose not to take and why? Did you enjoy your practice while at the firm?

Nah. I liked BigLaw except for the billable hour. I had a fundamental issue with having my value being tied to how much time I spent on things.

I did both lit and transactions. Started in lit and transitioned to 70% transactions by my 3rd year. Way easier to build a book on the transactional side.

Yeah, I had offers for partnership at a few boutiques by my third year. I didn't see the reason to do that versus opening up my own shop though.

Yeah, I liked the practice of law. I liked how smart everyone was and how interesting some of the problems were. I liked how high stakes things were as well. My deep hatred of the billable hour was a big issue. I also thought negotiating the deals was more interesting than papering them.

[84651846190]

Did you consider staying in law after your BigLaw entertainment work in LA? Did you do entertainment lit or transactions? Did you have boutique exit options that you chose not to take and why? Did you enjoy your practice while at the firm?

Nah. I liked BigLaw except for the billable hour. I had a fundamental issue with having my value being tied to how much time I spent on things.

I did both lit and transactions. Started in lit and transitioned to 70% transactions by my 3rd year. Way easier to build a book on the transactional side.

Yeah, I had offers for partnership at a few boutiques by my third year. I didn't see the reason to do that versus opening up my own shop though.

Okay, so are you here to brag, or do you actually think that your accomplishments are something that any of us could even come close to replicating?

[PwnLaw]

Okay, so are you here to brag, or do you actually think that your accomplishments are something that any of us could even come close to replicating?

That's a fair question.

I don't think my experience is particularly typical, but I do think there are a lot more opportunities for associates to build their career than what they're led to believe. Typically you'll get a lot of advice that you should just focus on "being a great attorney" early on. This generally translates to "stfu up and bill hours". It does juniors a huge disservice. So many of my friends made it to their 5th year without a network or career direction. And by that time, all of a sudden the firm is beginning to evaluate you for your ability to be a partner and you haven't spent any time preparing for that path other than ploughing your weekends into your job.

Law firms are solid platforms for building up your network and expanding your options if you take the time to do it. You'll have serious access to people far more senior than would be typical for that stage of your career. I just don't see law firms push juniors to take advantage of the opportunity and it has always bothered me.

Also, I have run into a fair number of attorneys that have made a transition to something different. I think it is entirely possible to have a broader range of opportunities than what you think you'd typically have coming from a law firm, but you need to behave differently than you're told to. It also helps to be willing to take on more personal risk.

If my advice is helpful to folks, great. It's cool to give back to a site I lurked on a lot back when I was going through school.

[Anonymous User]

I'm particularly interested in your industry but I'll be slaving away at a v5 as a corporate junior in nyc first. Any advice for building up a network when stuck on the opposite coast?

[Anonymous User]

what is the video game market? like, how would one break into a game such as DotA if one knew --everything-- nomenclature related? Team contracts? Tournamnent contracts? Player contracts? Pro Bono hours? Is there actual money to be made -- muchless book of business?

[Anonymous User]

you say u had a 750k book. who was the partner that would actually be in charge of the matter (sign off) and how did you get him or her to work with you without simply stealing the business from you.

[PwnLaw]

I'm particularly interested in your industry but I'll be slaving away at a v5 as a corporate junior in nyc first. Any advice for building up a network when stuck on the opposite coast?

If by industry you mean startups, then I suggest trying to network at some of the events held out there. You won't have much success at first, but there is enough going on in NYC to begin building relationships. The better course of action is to transfer as a 3rd or 4th year to one of the firms out in SV.

As for video games...it's super tough if you aren't near the folks you want to build relationships with. There just isn't much of an industry out there. A few startups, a few studios and a few larger outposts. Start by trying to build relationships with them and see where it goes. Ultimately, you'll likely need to move if your heart is set on video games. It's a tough industry to work your way in to and distance certainly doesn't help.

[FSK]

Do you think the industry is heading for a downturn with the over-proliferation of indie developers?

[PwnLaw]

what is the video game market? like, how would one break into a game such as DotA if one knew --everything-- nomenclature related? Team contracts? Tournamnent contracts? Player contracts? Pro Bono hours? Is there actual money to be made -- muchless book of business?

Being a player is a big help. There's a lot of skepticism about lawyers in general and being able to talk games can make a big difference in pitching. They want to feel like their lawyer is actually paying attention to not just the macro trends in law. It also helps because being a player lets you get a sense for where things in the industry are heading.

All of those contracts qualify. The rise of eSports is creating a new legal niche for aspiring lawyers. If I was starting out right now I'd be hitting that market segment hard. No perceived experts, very few well networked attorneys there and the current quality of legal advice is terrible in the space.

You won't make much money early on. But the video game industry is a huge business and if you can work your way up to expert, there is a lot to be gained. It's a helluva easier to become an expert at games (or at least viewed as one) than in complex commercial lit or capital markets. Games is one of the few industries where grey hair isn't placed at a premium when selecting an attorney.

[PwnLaw]

you say u had a 750k book. who was the partner that would actually be in charge of the matter (sign off) and how did you get him or her to work with you without simply stealing the business from you.

I worked with 4-5 partners I trusted a lot. They would be getting credit for the business but it would be noted internally that I had originated it. Partners I didn't trust I wouldn't route work to. A few partners were just awesome and really helped me along.

[PwnLaw]

Do you think the industry is heading for a downturn with the over-proliferation of indie developers?

Nah. I don't think the industry collapses from too many people developing. I think it collapses when there are too few people developing and it goes stagnant. Right now, with new platforms coming out every 4-6 years, it's a bit of a second golden age. Mobile space is under siege since very few devs can make money over there, but the year over year growth is shenanigans.

[johndhi]

just wanted to say thanks for doing this thread, and for being kind and responding to my PMs in the past. good luck with your next venture.

[071816]

your usage of the word "shenanigans" in this thread is deeply disturbing to me.