Is there any value in a 2L summer judicial externship? Forum

[TSwift_13]

.,.

[seespotrun]

Nah sry

[TSwift_13]

,.,

[Anonymous User]

If you want to work in government relations, you need to get experience first. No company is going to hire you to do government relations work fresh out of law school, and most if not all will want to see 2-5 years at a law firm or government work before you have a shot at it. Law firms and gov work have OCIs/are competitive because those are the places which actually take time to train new lawyers who don't know how to do anything.

And as far as firms vs judicial externship for 2L summer, firms always win in terms of prestige. Look at clerks, who are typically the brightest people, they will work at a firm usually 2nd summer, than take 1-2 years after to clerk. If you are working for a judge, it will usually tell people you couldn't find a law firm gig. Law firms will get iffy about hiring you because you won't have had any firm experience, and hence the snowball effect.

Morale of story, try and find any summer associate/clerkship job before you start thinking judicial externship. Save that for during the school year.

[WestWingWatcher]

I'm a 2L a GWU and spent my most recent summer interning with Amazon's government relations department in D.C. I didn't bother with OCI because lol GWU (bloodbath). And I just don't care about working for a firm to make big bucks.

To my subject, would there be any value in me externing next summer with one of D.C./2/7/9 CoA? I'm pretty sure I'd like to work in government relations long-term, but I'd also like to get more experience writing. Maybe those circuits are pie in the sky, but are there good reasons to work at a prestigious circuit while many other students are at firms?

Also, woo~! first post!

I hope you didn't do OCI because you knew you didn't have good enough grades, because otherwise I think you may have made a big mistake. Maybe try to mass mail some firms? You have to start somewhere, and firms have the money and resources to train you.

[TSwift_13]

,.,

[TSwift_13]

.,.

[WestWingWatcher]

I'm a 2L a GWU and spent my most recent summer interning with Amazon's government relations department in D.C. I didn't bother with OCI because lol GWU (bloodbath). And I just don't care about working for a firm to make big bucks.

To my subject, would there be any value in me externing next summer with one of D.C./2/7/9 CoA? I'm pretty sure I'd like to work in government relations long-term, but I'd also like to get more experience writing. Maybe those circuits are pie in the sky, but are there good reasons to work at a prestigious circuit while many other students are at firms?

Also, woo~! first post!

I hope you didn't do OCI because you knew you didn't have good enough grades, because otherwise I think you may have made a big mistake. Maybe try to mass mail some firms? You have to start somewhere, and firms have the money and resources to train you.

no, I have the grades, otherwise I wouldn't dream of those circuits. Just no interest in firm work, as I tried to make clear in my OP.

Gotcha. Me neither, but got swept up in the 'its now or never' and 'all the successful people put in a few years' thing. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

If you want to work in government relations, you need to get experience first. No company is going to hire you to do government relations work fresh out of law school, and most if not all will want to see 2-5 years at a law firm or government work before you have a shot at it. Law firms and gov work have OCIs/are competitive because those are the places which actually take time to train new lawyers who don't know how to do anything.

And as far as firms vs judicial externship for 2L summer, firms always win in terms of prestige. Look at clerks, who are typically the brightest people, they will work at a firm usually 2nd summer, than take 1-2 years after to clerk. If you are working for a judge, it will usually tell people you couldn't find a law firm gig. Law firms will get iffy about hiring you because you won't have had any firm experience, and hence the snowball effect.

Morale of story, try and find any summer associate/clerkship job before you start thinking judicial externship. Save that for during the school year.

I may try to work on the government side post-grad. I was in the senate for two years before law school, so I have some connections there, and it's probably what got me my gig this most recent summer.

working for a judge is something I've always been tempted to do - to see the inside of a courtroom, I guess, even if I have no interest in making a career that way

Not wanting to go the firm route is totally ok, and lots of people do it. I would definitely suggest trying to do a summer position in government, preferably something with fed or a regulatory body (that's what gov relations work will be). There is nothing wrong with working for a judge, I did it and it's an amazing, amazing experience, but just don't do it 2L summer if you can avoid it. There are tons of judges who hire interns for a spring/fall semester (especially in DC) and you can still get the experience that way. That way you can get best of both worlds, get some good government side experience and a judicial internship during the year (possibly for credit too).

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not doing OCI if you know you don't want to work for a firm is fine, but if you want to work in something related to the government, you should look for some kind of government gig this summer - it will be much more pertinent experience and will help you start making connections. You can always intern for a judge during the school year. State COA/SSC/fed district court/fed COA will all give you the chance to work on your writing.

(I actually know 2 people who didn't get biglaw during their 2L summer, interned for SSC justices instead, and then after graduation, one clerked for that justice, the other for a state COA judge, and they both got biglaw after clerking. However, a lot of it was down to their excellent hustle, and making use of their time clerking to network with everyone they could; I definitely had the sense that you would only intern for a judge 2L summer if you couldn't find something else more directly related to what you wanted to do.)

(or what anon just said)

[jbagelboy]

Not doing OCI if you know you don't want to work for a firm is fine, but if you want to work in something related to the government, you should look for some kind of government gig this summer - it will be much more pertinent experience and will help you start making connections. You can always intern for a judge during the school year. State COA/SSC/fed district court/fed COA will all give you the chance to work on your writing.

(I actually know 2 people who didn't get biglaw during their 2L summer, interned for SSC justices instead, and then after graduation, one clerked for that justice, the other for a state COA judge, and they both got biglaw after clerking. However, a lot of it was down to their excellent hustle, and making use of their time clerking to network with everyone they could; I definitely had the sense that you would only intern for a judge 2L summer if you couldn't find something else more directly related to what you wanted to do.)

(or what anon just said)

Yea; going from 2L judicial internship -> post-3L state clerkship -> legitimate biglaw is really difficult. That is not an ordinary or reasonably doable path by any means.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I will say that all the SSC clerks I knew in that state had legitimately good outcomes - it's a small (but desirable) legal market.