Do CSM/Skadden/DPW routinely take 3L Switchers? Forum

[Anonymous User]

It seems like there are more than a few people reporting CSM/DPW CBs & Offers on here.

Do you have to be coming from a V firm they've heard of? Basically, can you do a 2L job at a public interest org/gov and then apply as a 3L being brutally honest with "I didn't have the grades last time around, but now I have more than good enough cumulative grades (i.e., didn't just climb back to barely above their rising 2L cutoffs, but earned Kent/high Stone @ CLS or Butler/Allen/McKay @ NYU)."

As for how they'd know my interests lie with them rather than PI, I'd point them to course selection, which screams Corp and the total opposite of PI.

[Anonymous User]

I know 2 people with 3L offers to one of these firms, and both had 2L SAs - one V10, and the other V30.

[Anonymous User]

I have a similar question. I was very torn about making a decision for the coming summer among 3 V5 firms and recently picked one, informing all three of that decision. I received a response from the other 2 firms to the effect that "if you have second thoughts down the road or after your summer please contact us regarding the possibility of joining us," even though I had turned them down for the SA position.

Is this meaningless boilerplate? Or do they really mean that if you contact them later on, you have a reasonably increased (though obviously not guaranteed) chance to switch over to them because they gave you an SA offer? Or will they just consider it an application from a potential lateral just like any other? (FWIW, one of these 2 is CSM, which I know doesn't do lateral hires...so I find the idea of them being open to the possibility of switching over after not doing an SA at CSM surprising.)

If anyone has thoughts (or better, has gone through with something like this), I'd be interested to hear!

[Tiago Splitter]

I have a similar question. I was very torn about making a decision for the coming summer among 3 V5 firms and recently picked one, informing all three of that decision. I received a response from the other 2 firms to the effect that "if you have second thoughts down the road or after your summer please contact us regarding the possibility of joining us," even though I had turned them down for the SA position.

Is this meaningless boilerplate? Or do they really mean that if you contact them later on, you have a reasonably increased (though obviously not guaranteed) chance to switch over to them because they gave you an SA offer? Or will they just consider it an application from a potential lateral just like any other? (FWIW, one of these 2 is CSM, which I know doesn't do lateral hires...so I find the idea of them being open to the possibility of switching over after not doing an SA at CSM surprising.)

If anyone has thoughts (or better, has gone through with something like this), I'd be interested to hear!

All of the non-Wachtell V5 (and their peers outside the V5) hires 3L's regularly. That language was not meaningless boilerplate. The only issue is whether they have a need, but they usually do. FWIW Cravath is as active in 3L hiring as anyone year after year.

[Anonymous User]

How far down the Vault rankings will the V5/V10's look assuming you have the grades? Only V20s? V50s?

I realize there's not 100% accurate answer, but generally.

[Tiago Splitter]

I know someone who got a V10 as a 3L without having worked in biglaw 2L summer but I assume that's pretty rare and I don't really know the backstory. Generally you need to have worked at a big firm, but I wouldn't worry about Vault rank as long as you're at an established NYC firm and do well during 2L.

[2014]

We had a PI summer 2L get hired by a V7 as a 3L. They all will hire the right candidate just have to get your resume across the right desk.

[UnicornHunter]

We had a PI summer 2L get hired by a V7 as a 3L. They all will hire the right candidate just have to get your resume across the right desk.

[Anonymous User]

FYI, starting at a V5 and summered at a V50 non-NYC firm. T14 law school. All about demand and qualifications.

[Anonymous User]

Well I know it's all about demand & qualifications. That's all it ever is. The only 2 questions specific to my candidacy are:

1. Next summer, whether NYC Corporate/M&A activity levels and hence new associate demand levels will stay near 2014 levels.

2. Whether "qualifications" requires a V-firm, or whether I can just do PI/Gov during 2L summer and then be honest that "my interests are in NYC Corp/M&A as indicated via my course selection and I only did PI/Gov cus I didn't have the grades for you guys last year"

[FSK]

Just hope the economy doesn't go in the tank and get good grades. All you can do.

[2014]

Well I know it's all about demand & qualifications. That's all it ever is. The only 2 questions specific to my candidacy are:

1. Next summer, whether NYC Corporate/M&A activity levels and hence new associate demand levels will stay near 2014 levels.

2. Whether "qualifications" requires a V-firm, or whether I can just do PI/Gov during 2L summer and then be honest that "my interests are in NYC Corp/M&A as indicated via my course selection and I only did PI/Gov cus I didn't have the grades for you guys last year"

2 is doable but you have to get the interview first. If you plan to rely on simplicity or email applications you should be prepared to be auto rejected from some firms because of your 2L job. If you can network your way to an interview your odds would be much better imo.

[Anonymous User]

2 is doable but you have to get the interview first. If you plan to rely on simplicity or email applications you should be prepared to be auto rejected from some firms because of your 2L job. If you can network your way to an interview your odds would be much better imo.

Well the plan is to have grade-related, attention-grabbing resume line items. Like Kent/high Stone/Allen/Butler/Sears etc. Because that's what it's going to take (it'll take a lot less to come back into their grade range, but not the "getting my resume on someone's desk" cachet of a prize).

You're saying I should cold-email alums, pretend to be interested in their practice area, say something like "oh last summer I did [filler] job...so I didn't really get to see legal practice in Cap Markets. However, I learned a great deal from Prof X's class on Cap Markets--are the matters you handle of that nature in practice?

Then ask for "advice" on how to get a foot in the door. This is where having a school-specific prize (e.g., McKay) an alum will recognize helps; because otherwise I wouldn't waste his time.

[Anonymous User]

If you are SA at a lower ranked firm(V40), what do you say when they(CSM/Skadden/DPW) ask you why you want to switch to our firm?