Jones Day v Skadden v Milbank (All NY) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Fortunate to have offers from all three. They are three completely different firms, I know. Skadden is heads and shoulders above the other two, but I honestly liked both Milbank and JD better in terms of people/culture. Would I be making a big mistake passing up Skadden? Don't really have a preferred practice area (really looking to explore next summer). Would appreciate insight/guidance.

[Anonymous User]

I have friends in all three offices. I wouldn't say that Skadden is "heads and shoulder above" the other two firms (esp. JD). Skadden is known at my school to take people around median regularly as they have a large class and need bodies. I wouldn't just look at vault rankings as it is not a measure of selectivity or prestige (vault rankings are for people in law school rather than a measure used in the profession). I'm familiar with the culture there as I know people that have been there for several years--and it isn't for everyone. So no it wouldn't be a mistake at all to pass up Skadden if you liked the other firms more.

[Anonymous User]

Would also not say Skadden is "head and shoulder" above the other two. It comes down to fit, personal preference to be honest.

[Anonymous User]

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... ion_376083
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... ion_376063

Idk what "heads and shoulders above" means but Skadden NY would be my clear pick here. If you liked the other two much more the maybe you should go with them, but I disagree that it's just about fit here (although Chambers is just one reference point, the difference here isn't band 1 vs band 2). I guess the question is whether the difference is worth not choosing the firm you liked the most - I think that's your decision, dependent more specifically on what you are interested in or what you hope to do etc.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the responses. I guess what I meant was what the anon above referenced; Skadden is reputable (or at least perceived to be so) in almost every area. Already disregarded vault rankings; I agree they seem worthless.

[Anonymous User]

Well I mean Skadden is certainly reputable and among the very best in many practice areas in NY, but Jones Day and Milbank are also well-regarded firms. So it may not necessarily be a "big mistake" for you to choose one of firms you liked more. Do second looks and meet as many people as you can. It's just hard to provide better advice in a vacuum like this without knowing more about your goals/preferences.

[Rahviveh]

Careful, if you go to Jones day you might work for this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0XWSBA ... be&t=1m26s

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day is blackbox compensation (meaning you dont know what the f*** you'll get paid), Skadden is the best law firm in the world but a sweatshop. Milbank is top of the market pay, great culture, and a top tier firm comparable to Debevoise and better than Latham (for example) in NYC

[Trippel]

Why are all of these old "Milbank vs xyz firm" threads being resurrected???

[deepseapartners]

Milbank is top of the market pay, great culture, and a top tier firm comparable to Debevoise and better than Latham (for example) in NYC

Lol who are you and why are you fluffing up Milbank in all these outdated firm comparison questions?

[Anonymous User]

i am anonymous. i cannot fluff. i can only give completely accurate information about law firms.

[Mullens]

i am anonymous. i cannot fluff. i can only give completely accurate information about law firms.

If by completely accurate you mean puffery and poorly supported opinions, sure.

[Anonymous User]

Which one has the best growth for the practice area(s) you're thinking of focusing in?

If one is more likely to give you chances to do substantial work earlier, or one makes it easier for you to switch groups if you want to try out multiple legal areas, for example, you may as well take those things into account. Unless this choice is a stepping stone for some other job you have in mind, culture should probably be much more important than choosing between JD and Skadden based on rank.

[Johann]

not jones day.

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

[Johann]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

[h2go]

Jones Day does a good job of opening offices.

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

As a prospective JD associate/ fmr. SA, this is TCR --> at the very least, everyone complains about the pay. It's funny how "black box" is supposed to breed strength, when really, it just makes everyone bitter.

[SLS_AMG]

Jones Day is blackbox compensation (meaning you dont know what the f*** you'll get paid), Skadden is the best law firm in the world but a sweatshop. Milbank is top of the market pay, great culture, and a top tier firm comparable to Debevoise and better than Latham (for example) in NYC

I'm sure I'm not the only one who laughed out loud at this

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

As a prospective JD associate/ fmr. SA, this is TCR --> at the very least, everyone complains about the pay. It's funny how "black box" is supposed to breed strength, when really, it just makes everyone bitter.

Former JD associate here. We all felt duped by it because the firm implies (and some people say) that your bonus gets worked into your actual compensation increase. So you are lead to believe that you are still getting a "bonus" in the form of a bump in pay. But thats not what happens. Sure, you may get a bit above a market-rate increase, but without any bonus, you are coming out well behind market rate firms.

You have to drink the kool aid in a real serious way to think its beneficial. Sure, the superstar senior associates will tell you how the top folks get rewarded in the long-run. But the vast majority of people don't last that long, and come out well behind those at other market-rate firms once you factor in the lack of bonus year after year.

[Johann]

The partners are just as greedy but make a third of the profits which means they have to get that money from somewhere and its associate compensation.

[homestyle28]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

Well, at least your consistent:

How many more times do people on this baord have to hear K&L and Jones Day are shitholes. Out of like the 100 largest biglaw firms there is a pretty solid rate of attorney turnover around 2x. Some great firms only have 1x. K&L and Jones Day are outliers at like 10x right now with no other firm apporaching 7/8x.

[kaiser]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

Well, at least your consistent:

How many more times do people on this baord have to hear K&L and Jones Day are shitholes. Out of like the 100 largest biglaw firms there is a pretty solid rate of attorney turnover around 2x. Some great firms only have 1x. K&L and Jones Day are outliers at like 10x right now with no other firm apporaching 7/8x.

Curious where we can find those turnover stats.

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

As a prospective JD associate/ fmr. SA, this is TCR --> at the very least, everyone complains about the pay. It's funny how "black box" is supposed to breed strength, when really, it just makes everyone bitter.

Former JD associate here. We all felt duped by it because the firm implies (and some people say) that your bonus gets worked into your actual compensation increase. So you are lead to believe that you are still getting a "bonus" in the form of a bump in pay. But thats not what happens. Sure, you may get a bit above a market-rate increase, but without any bonus, you are coming out well behind market rate firms.

You have to drink the kool aid in a real serious way to think its beneficial. Sure, the superstar senior associates will tell you how the top folks get rewarded in the long-run. But the vast majority of people don't last that long, and come out well behind those at other market-rate firms once you factor in the lack of bonus year after year.

Would this apply in secondary markets as well where associates don't really get a bonus/only get a 5k bonus per year anyway?

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

As a prospective JD associate/ fmr. SA, this is TCR --> at the very least, everyone complains about the pay. It's funny how "black box" is supposed to breed strength, when really, it just makes everyone bitter.

Former JD associate here. We all felt duped by it because the firm implies (and some people say) that your bonus gets worked into your actual compensation increase. So you are lead to believe that you are still getting a "bonus" in the form of a bump in pay. But thats not what happens. Sure, you may get a bit above a market-rate increase, but without any bonus, you are coming out well behind market rate firms.

You have to drink the kool aid in a real serious way to think its beneficial. Sure, the superstar senior associates will tell you how the top folks get rewarded in the long-run. But the vast majority of people don't last that long, and come out well behind those at other market-rate firms once you factor in the lack of bonus year after year.

Would this apply in secondary markets as well where associates don't really get a bonus/only get a 5k bonus per year anyway?

No clue what they do in secondary markets. I can only speak for my major market office in saying that we felt duped and that its one of many things that was consistently lowering office morale, which was palpably negative by the time I left.