Cravath or Davis Polk or Paul Weiss or Kirkland or Gibson for lit Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have offers at these firms in NY. Want to do litigation, looking for government exit opportunities. Not really all that interested in securities work, but also not particularly interested in doing white collar work for five years while I try and find something else to do with my life. Don't care much about fit--I liked everyone I met and can see myself working with any of them.

Cravath is admittedly on here because of the prestige factor. Thoughts?

[smaug]

Gibson NY or elsewhere?

Anyway, I'd be tempted by Paul, Weiss. But, I think there are some real culture differences between CSM, DPW, and PW. Do you have any feel for that? Are you interested in the rotation system?

I don't think that there's huge differences (read: any difference at all) in how PRESTIGIOUS Cravath, Davis Polk, or Paul Weiss would be for lit. I also think that GDC and Kirkland defensible choices (especially if the GDC office is outside of New York) but that would rest on practice areas you don't seem to be interested in.

Similarly, I'd be wary of DPW given you practice area preferences.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I'm not normally a proponent of picking based on name brand when the distinctions are as fine as these. But IMO Cravath still has a certain cachet that is worth something if all else is truly equal. I think there's a good chance you'll work materially more at Cravath, and also there's the rotation system, so if either of those gives you pause, then go with another option. In my opinion DPW or PW are a clear but small step up over the others. But they're all defensible.

[cookiejar1]

Do you already have a clerkship lined up? I'd also look into which firm will best help you cop a competitive clerkship after a few years - I'm not a litigator so I don't know the differences between the firms (if there are any) but I'd imagine it's something to consider.

[Anonymous User]

Gibson NY. Looking only in NY because my partner is here for the foreseeable future, but in a few years we'll have more mobility.

In terms of fit and culture--I'm a pretty laid back person who doesn't care what the culture is. Again, I really liked everyone I met with at these firms, and I can imagine myself working anywhere. The hours at Cravath seem to be as bad at Davis Polk and Paul Weiss anyway, and if I can come out of Cravath with the added cachet of having a better government connections and opportunities, it's worth it to me. On the other hand, if Cravath and Paul Weiss are going to give me similar training and skill sets, I don't think I would pick Cravath because of their focus on financial work. Of all the places I visited, Gibson NY seemed superficially like the place where I connected most with my peers, but I'm sure they just picked the more social associates to talk to me, so that isn't a helpful data point.

Don't have a clerkship yet, but definitely want one. Good point to consider. Was hoping to use my clerkship year to spring into a different opportunity, especially since I can't look far outside of NY right now.

Not trying to be so unhelpful, and I appreciate all your feedback!

[SweetrollStealer]

I have offers at these firms in NY. Want to do litigation, looking for government exit opportunities. Not really all that interested in securities work, but also not particularly interested in doing white collar work for five years while I try and find something else to do with my life. Don't care much about fit--I liked everyone I met and can see myself working with any of them.

Cravath is admittedly on here because of the prestige factor. Thoughts?

If you want to do lit in NY but not do securities or white collar, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss is the best for lit /thread

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss is the best for lit /thread

Just because of the prestige, or because they get juniors better work? Not sure why this is so clear cut to some people, because other attorneys have told me Cravath is far and away best for litigation.

And I know that NYC Biglaw means financial work, but there are definitely firms that have other work available and I want to be able to try that rather than just doing securities litigation for 4 or 5 years while I try to figure out how to jump ship.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Paul Weiss is the best for lit /thread

Just because of the prestige, or because they get juniors better work? Not sure why this is so clear cut to some people, because other attorneys have told me Cravath is far and away best for litigation.

And I know that NYC Biglaw means financial work, but there are definitely firms that have other work available and I want to be able to try that rather than just doing securities litigation for 4 or 5 years while I try to figure out how to jump ship.

Anyone who says PW is clearly better than Cravath or Davis Polk for litigation is regurgitating marketing bullshit.

Here's a question: what kind of work DO you want?

[Anonymous User]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

Also:

Please DO care about "fit." We are not all the same. If you can't figure out the differences, please continue talking to people.

[jbagelboy]

Paul Weiss is the best for lit /thread

Just because of the prestige, or because they get juniors better work? Not sure why this is so clear cut to some people, because other attorneys have told me Cravath is far and away best for litigation.

And I know that NYC Biglaw means financial work, but there are definitely firms that have other work available and I want to be able to try that rather than just doing securities litigation for 4 or 5 years while I try to figure out how to jump ship.

Anyone who says PW is clearly better than Cravath or Davis Polk for litigation is regurgitating marketing bullshit.

Here's a question: what kind of work DO you want?

Cravath/davis polk/paul weiss are all comparable for lit. No prestige difference, although paul weiss has a slightly broader practice range. Anyone ITT pushing one firm over the others for anything beyond culture is probably a summer at that firm reflecting their own bias.

[jbagelboy]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

They aren't.

[Anonymous User]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

They aren't.

I know.

Was just asking OP since, "Cravath is admittedly on here because of the prestige factor."

[dixiecupdrinking]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

Old school name recognition, imo. To be clear, I think this is an incredibly tiny edge; no one whose opinion matters is likely to prefer Cravath (or, if they do, there will be just as many people who prefer DPW, i.e., it's idiosyncratic); and other factors should make more of a difference. Like, I find it hard to believe anyone could be completely neutral on the rotation system. Even things like office space or location are more important. But -- all that said, and for someone who is truly undecided for some reason, I do think there is a certain Cravath mystique. And I bet if Cravath associates were being honest, a lot of them would tell you they decided to go there for that reason.

[smaug]

There's definitely a Cravath ~mystique~ but it's not going to in terms of exits, quality of work, or anything like that, so you should discount it entirely and decide on the rotation system/culture/whatever.

[Anonymous User]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

Old school name recognition, imo. To be clear, I think this is an incredibly tiny edge; no one whose opinion matters is likely to prefer Cravath (or, if they do, there will be just as many people who prefer DPW, i.e., it's idiosyncratic); and other factors should make more of a difference. Like, I find it hard to believe anyone could be completely neutral on the rotation system. Even things like office space or location are more important. But -- all that said, and for someone who is truly undecided for some reason, I do think there is a certain Cravath mystique. And I bet if Cravath associates were being honest, a lot of them would tell you they decided to go there for that reason.

Totally fair answer. But not necessarily true. Neither firm has non-legal name recognition and both DPW and Cravath have the same name recognition among people who recognize either name. Nobody knows one who doesn't know the other etc.

At any rate. The broader point here is that OP should ABSOLUTELY not pick one over the other based on prestige and that if Cravath is "on the list" because of its prestige (as OP said) then it probably shouldn't be.

And yes, the rotation system, office location in NYC, number of offices, culture, cultural reputation are all good factors to consider in choosing between these firms.

[skers]

Kirkland. They pay more.

[dixiecupdrinking]

DPW lit associate here.

What makes Cravath more prestigious than us?

Old school name recognition, imo. To be clear, I think this is an incredibly tiny edge; no one whose opinion matters is likely to prefer Cravath (or, if they do, there will be just as many people who prefer DPW, i.e., it's idiosyncratic); and other factors should make more of a difference. Like, I find it hard to believe anyone could be completely neutral on the rotation system. Even things like office space or location are more important. But -- all that said, and for someone who is truly undecided for some reason, I do think there is a certain Cravath mystique. And I bet if Cravath associates were being honest, a lot of them would tell you they decided to go there for that reason.

Totally fair answer. But not necessarily true. Neither firm has non-legal name recognition and both DPW and Cravath have the same name recognition among people who recognize either name. Nobody knows one who doesn't know the other etc.

At any rate. The broader point here is that OP should ABSOLUTELY not pick one over the other based on prestige and that if Cravath is "on the list" because of its prestige (as OP said) then it probably shouldn't be.

And yes, the rotation system, office location in NYC, number of offices, culture, cultural reputation are all good factors to consider in choosing between these firms.

Yes, I agree 100%

[Anonymous User]

Would love thoughts on GDC NY