Dallas: Jones Day vs. Baker Botts vs. V&E Forum

[Anonymous User]

Which firm would you choose and why? I am looking to go into Corporate Transactions in Dallas.

[Anonymous User]

If you have offers from all 3... Nice.

[BigZuck]

I'd probably go with whichever of V&E and BB has the better corporate practice in Dallas. Failing that, I would choose whichever of the two I liked the most. Failing that, I would flip a coin to decide between the two.

[Anonymous User]

JD in Dallas has some of the most awkward human beings walking the planet. Granted, this is my opinion of Jones Day generally. I would never accept a callback or offer from them, even if I was on fire and they were the last people on the planet with any water. Having to have a conversation with Jones Day associates is akin to having a root canal sans anesthesia.

I would highly recommend V&E. Baker Botts corporate department in Dallas is great, but V&E devotes more resources to the corporate department. However, V&E Dallas is notoriously harsh on women and homosexuals (not overtly, but not the best culture for those groups). This is what I have heard from people who worked there for a number of years and left.

But congrats on offers from great Dallas firms

[shifty_eyed]

I would highly recommend V&E. . . . V&E Dallas is notoriously harsh on women and homosexuals.

But congrats on offers from great Dallas firms

Am I being whooshed?

[Anonymous User]

I would highly recommend V&E. . . . V&E Dallas is notoriously harsh on women and homosexuals.

But congrats on offers from great Dallas firms

Am I being whooshed?

Previous anon. What are you asking about? I'm happy to expand on any of my claims haha.

[shifty_eyed]

It just seemed odd to me that you would highly recommend a firm you find "notoriously harsh" on women and gay people.

[Anonymous User]

Not that odd if you are neither. In which case it may not bother you much.

[Anonymous User]

It just seemed odd to me that you would highly recommend a firm you find "notoriously harsh" on women and gay people.

I highly recommend their corporate department. It does fantastic work. It is undeniably the best of the three for that type of work. However, it does have that reputation from numerous people I've known.

I am gay, so I wouldn't work there. Doesn't mean someone else would be impacted.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody from Baker Botts Dallas know what their offer rate was this last summer?

[Anonymous User]

Normally I'd say narrow the firms down to the top tier and then pick based on culture/fit. So that would be a V&E/BB (V&E may be marginally better in Dallas) > Jones Day, but I'm not sure any of those have particularly remarkable cultures relative to other firms in the area...

That being said, I like the Baker Botts Dallas people much more than their Houston counterparts, and I'd definitely say I like their group over V&E & Jones Day (with the caveat that I only know lit people at Jones Day). This is mostly from associates I know as well as partners I've interacted with, so I'd keep in mind that the partner/senior you work for will probably have the biggest impact on your quality of life.

No matter how casual or formal the occasion, I've never clicked with anyone from V&E's corporate group, so I'd never make that decision on culture. I've heard through the grapevine that V&E is a sweatshop, but who are we kidding, corporate work is going to be brutal anywhere you go.

Talking w/ laterals though, most people who leave V&E seem to have nice things to say about it, but I usually heard words synonymous with "hell" when talking to ex-BB laterals.

TL;DR: Pick BB/V&E based on who you like more. Ultimately, these are just my anecdotal impressions, so don't rely on them. And if you really like Jones Day above and beyond everyone else, I'd go with that over the others tbh.

Oh, and to address the guy slamming Jones Day, I'd agree that they're awkward (like we're going to pretend Baker Botts and V&E aren't), but I haven't had such a strong impression from the Dallas office. The Houston office, I'd wholeheartedly agree with that assessment, but not Dallas. And OP, that goes to show you that peoples' impressions of a place can vary, so you shouldn't entirely rely on someone else's guess about how it is to work there (if they're on the outside looking in).

[Anonymous User]

TL;DR: Pick BB/V&E based on who you like more. Ultimately, these are just my anecdotal impressions, so don't rely on them. And if you really like Jones Day above and beyond everyone else, I'd go with that over the others tbh.

This.

Oh, and to address the guy slamming Jones Day, I'd agree that they're awkward (like we're going to pretend Baker Botts and V&E aren't), but I haven't had such a strong impression from the Dallas office. The Houston office, I'd wholeheartedly agree with that assessment, but not Dallas. And OP, that goes to show you that peoples' impressions of a place can vary, so you shouldn't entirely rely on someone else's guess about how it is to work there (if they're on the outside looking in).

Let me clarify briefly:

My impression of the Dallas office is significantly less informed than that of the Houston, Chicago, New York, and D.C. offices. I know about 50 JD associates total, but only four from Dallas (seven from Houston). Of these 50, only one has ever been remotely normal. This may be because I know her family, and was introduced prior to starting law school. She also might be their "token normal person". Life's mysteries.

In any event, Jones Day has completely poisoned my opinion of the firm by its attorneys repeated attempts to assault me with unwanted and uncomfortable conversation. After every chat with these walking manifestations of social awkwardness, I have an unnatural and unending desire to take a shower.

In choosing your firm, find the place that fits well with you. The Atlanta airport test if you will (if you are stuck in an airport with only one other person from your firm, would you be able to survive for 8+ hours?). However, I would rather have my fingernails forcibly removed with pliers/wear the red shirt in star trek/watch the Star Wars prequels, than endure the torment of being trapped with people from Jones Day.

[Anonymous User]

As an awkward, nerdy guy I'm a little surprised Jones Day dinged me; from the posts in this thread I would think I'd fit right in.

On a serious note, I would definitely pick VE if you want to do corporate. I think BB has a stronger litigation practice. I interviewed with VE Dallas, and everyone seemed very chill and personable. I've been told their Dallas office is less work hard play hard than their Houston office, but I haven't met many of their Houston folks so I don't have much to compare it to.

I've only met Baker Botts Houston folks, but from my (admittedly small sample size) experience they didn't seem particularly friendly. I've heard BB's Dallas office has a more laid back culture.

[Anonymous User]

I'll just second that the BB Dallas office is a lot more laid back than the Houston office. If you are just looking for prestige of the corporate departments, then VE > BB in Dallas, although I will say BB has really picked up some big deals over the past year. But it really comes down to who you think you would get along with more in the long run (admittedly, that's not easy to see before you start).

[El_Bee_Oh]

Don't want to hijack this thread but anyone have any insight as to how GDC's corporate group in Dallas compares to these three? I know they do top notch work but I've heard conflicting things regarding people and culture

[Anonymous User]

Normally I'd say narrow the firms down to the top tier and then pick based on culture/fit. So that would be a V&E/BB (V&E may be marginally better in Dallas) > Jones Day, but I'm not sure any of those have particularly remarkable cultures relative to other firms in the area...

That being said, I like the Baker Botts Dallas people much more than their Houston counterparts, and I'd definitely say I like their group over V&E & Jones Day (with the caveat that I only know lit people at Jones Day). This is mostly from associates I know as well as partners I've interacted with, so I'd keep in mind that the partner/senior you work for will probably have the biggest impact on your quality of life.

No matter how casual or formal the occasion, I've never clicked with anyone from V&E's corporate group, so I'd never make that decision on culture. I've heard through the grapevine that V&E is a sweatshop, but who are we kidding, corporate work is going to be brutal anywhere you go.

Talking w/ laterals though, most people who leave V&E seem to have nice things to say about it, but I usually heard words synonymous with "hell" when talking to ex-BB laterals.

TL;DR: Pick BB/V&E based on who you like more. Ultimately, these are just my anecdotal impressions, so don't rely on them. And if you really like Jones Day above and beyond everyone else, I'd go with that over the others tbh.

Oh, and to address the guy slamming Jones Day, I'd agree that they're awkward (like we're going to pretend Baker Botts and V&E aren't), but I haven't had such a strong impression from the Dallas office. The Houston office, I'd wholeheartedly agree with that assessment, but not Dallas. And OP, that goes to show you that peoples' impressions of a place can vary, so you shouldn't entirely rely on someone else's guess about how it is to work there (if they're on the outside looking in).

Different anon, but the above would generally be my view. I would choose between BB/V&E based on which one you like best. I think the feel is fairly different but maybe it's hard to tell that just from CBs. My impression is that V&E is much more "all-in" in terms of what is required of you and the amount of time you have to commit to be successful.

And agreed, if you really like Jones Day, take it. But, you can move more easily from BB/V&E to JD than JD to BB/V&E.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody from Baker Botts Dallas know what their offer rate was this last summer?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it has been 100% the past 3-4 years. Any no-offers have generally been in Houston which has a much larger class.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody from Baker Botts Dallas know what their offer rate was this last summer?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it has been 100% the past 3-4 years. Any no-offers have generally been in Houston which has a much larger class.

Dallas BB has had 100% hiring for at least the past 3 years.

[Anonymous User]

I think you're being led astray by some of the prior posters. I know people at all 3 firms in Dallas and my take is that the corporate practices at JD are very different from those at V&E/BB Dallas, but it's ridiculous to say that the other two firms have an edge over JD, which has an elite corporate practice. It's probably more a question of focus. JD has a different (and in some ways more sophisticated) practice that tends to focus more on national and international deal work, while V&E/BB Dallas offices probably focus more on Dallas-based, Texas-based and energy clients. That said, JD will do local company deals and V&E/BB will have some national/international--so all three have broad ranging practices.

And you can judge for yourself from meeting people on callbacks whether you share the anon poster's dislike of the people there--though for someone to find 50 people they don't like sounds like it may be more of an issue with the poster than with the people he or she met. The three firms have very different personalities and you just need to see which one you like better.

Anyway, all three good choices, and congratulations, but had to pipe up at the unwarranted bashing of a great firm.

[BigZuck]

I think you're being led astray by some of the prior posters. I know people at all 3 firms in Dallas and my take is that the corporate practices at JD are very different from those at V&E/BB Dallas, but it's ridiculous to say that the other two firms have an edge over JD, which has an elite corporate practice. It's probably more a question of focus. JD has a different (and in some ways more sophisticated) practice that tends to focus more on national and international deal work, while V&E/BB Dallas offices probably focus more on Dallas-based, Texas-based and energy clients. That said, JD will do local company deals and V&E/BB will have some national/international--so all three have broad ranging practices.

And you can judge for yourself from meeting people on callbacks whether you share the anon poster's dislike of the people there--though for someone to find 50 people they don't like sounds like it may be more of an issue with the poster than with the people he or she met. The three firms have very different personalities and you just need to see which one you like better.

Anyway, all three good choices, and congratulations, but had to pipe up at the unwarranted bashing of a great firm.

Enjoy spending all your nights and weekends at Jones Day bro

Real talk though: OP- read the Jones Day thread on this site and couple that with your own impressions to decide if that is a place you really want to work.

[Anonymous User]

Just because you have a different opinion, doesn't mean another view is "unwarranted".

[Anonymous User]

TL;DR: Pick BB/V&E based on who you like more. Ultimately, these are just my anecdotal impressions, so don't rely on them. And if you really like Jones Day above and beyond everyone else, I'd go with that over the others tbh.

This.

Oh, and to address the guy slamming Jones Day, I'd agree that they're awkward (like we're going to pretend Baker Botts and V&E aren't), but I haven't had such a strong impression from the Dallas office. The Houston office, I'd wholeheartedly agree with that assessment, but not Dallas. And OP, that goes to show you that peoples' impressions of a place can vary, so you shouldn't entirely rely on someone else's guess about how it is to work there (if they're on the outside looking in).

Let me clarify briefly:

My impression of the Dallas office is significantly less informed than that of the Houston, Chicago, New York, and D.C. offices. I know about 50 JD associates total, but only four from Dallas (seven from Houston). Of these 50, only one has ever been remotely normal. This may be because I know her family, and was introduced prior to starting law school. She also might be their "token normal person". Life's mysteries.

In any event, Jones Day has completely poisoned my opinion of the firm by its attorneys repeated attempts to assault me with unwanted and uncomfortable conversation. After every chat with these walking manifestations of social awkwardness, I have an unnatural and unending desire to take a shower.

In choosing your firm, find the place that fits well with you. The Atlanta airport test if you will (if you are stuck in an airport with only one other person from your firm, would you be able to survive for 8+ hours?). However, I would rather have my fingernails forcibly removed with pliers/wear the red shirt in star trek/watch the Star Wars prequels, than endure the torment of being trapped with people from Jones Day.

I work at Jones Day in a major market. Granted, I have not worked with people in the Dallas office, but I've worked with attorneys from NY, DC, Cleveland, Chicago, Boston, Tokyo, Shanghai . . . and I disagree with everything in this post. Sure, there are awkward people at every firm, and Jones Day is no exception. But to make such a sweeping generalization about every attorney at a large law firm destroys your credibility. The Jones Day associates and partners I work with are some of the most genuine, friendly, down-to-earth people I've ever worked with (and I had a previous career before starting law school). But hey, maybe I am the awkward one . . . I doubt it though.

[Anonymous User]

I think you're being led astray by some of the prior posters. I know people at all 3 firms in Dallas and my take is that the corporate practices at JD are very different from those at V&E/BB Dallas, but it's ridiculous to say that the other two firms have an edge over JD, which has an elite corporate practice. It's probably more a question of focus. JD has a different (and in some ways more sophisticated) practice that tends to focus more on national and international deal work, while V&E/BB Dallas offices probably focus more on Dallas-based, Texas-based and energy clients. That said, JD will do local company deals and V&E/BB will have some national/international--so all three have broad ranging practices.

And you can judge for yourself from meeting people on callbacks whether you share the anon poster's dislike of the people there--though for someone to find 50 people they don't like sounds like it may be more of an issue with the poster than with the people he or she met. The three firms have very different personalities and you just need to see which one you like better.

Anyway, all three good choices, and congratulations, but had to pipe up at the unwarranted bashing of a great firm.

I was one of the above who said I would choose between BB/V&E based on fit. I completely agree with you though that Jones Day Dallas seems to have a great corporate practice (and I have no clue which of the 3 is the most "well-regarded" in Dallas). I think the concern about JD should be the compensation, and it is difficult (if not impossible) to know whether most corporate associates are making market.

[Anonymous User]

ETA: Sorry, Double Post

[BigZuck]

Shouldn't you be concerned about compensation at Baker Botts and V&E as well? I thought neither were on NY lockstep either but maybe that's wrong.