Cold/No Offers: Which Firms? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Which firms are known for cold-offering or no-offering summers? Did any big NY firms have any cold/no-offers this past summer?

[jbagelboy]

The 2015 SA thread discussed this at length. No point rehashing it here, but go check out the thread.

Also apparently even 100% offer firms will cold offer. It's just unlikely any cold offered simpson thacher or cravath summers are gonna come onto tls to talk about it.

[Anonymous User]

But still, I assume a cold-offer at STB/Cravath would still put you in a pretty good position for 3L OCI...although that's probably not the position you'd want to be in...maybe if you had other summer offers you could hit those up your 3L

[Anonymous User]

Where do you find this data, or is it just word of mouth? Looking at Vault, it's data from 2014, for example K&E:

Summer Associate Offers
103 out of 104 (2014)

Can we chalk that up to a no-offer?

[thesealocust]

Cold offers from top firms are very rare. They really are extremely protective of their 100% offer rates, and they know people talk.

Philosophically, they assume they're only hiring the best/brightest in the first place, and they have significant yield problems because of the cluster of large top firms all vying for the same candidates.

[smaug]

Cold offers from top firms are very rare. They really are extremely protective of their 100% offer rates, and they know people talk.

Philosophically, they assume they're only hiring the best/brightest in the first place, and they have significant yield problems because of the cluster of large top firms all vying for the same candidates.

If by rare you mean the top firms collectively will only cold offer a few people a year, I agree, but I think it happens every year.

[Winter is Coming]

Where do you find this data, or is it just word of mouth? Looking at Vault, it's data from 2014, for example K&E:

Summer Associate Offers
103 out of 104 (2014)

Can we chalk that up to a no-offer?

Yes that's a no-offer. A cold offer would still read 104 out of 104, that's the point. Cold offers are offers for NALP purposes, its just implied you should look elsewhere.

[Anonymous User]

Proskauer is scary.

[Anonymous User]

How many did proskauer no offer this year?

[Anonymous User]

Looks like 3 from vault...but from which offices Idk. I wouldn't think it's any of major ones like NY, BOS, LA though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Anonymous User]

I know of 1 Proskauer NY cold-offer, but I'm curious why people think the firm is "scary"

[Anonymous User]

^Interested in this too. I mean as long as you do "decent" work and aren't a total ass-hat, won't you most likely get an offer?

[Anonymous User]

Pillsbury no-offers a couple SAs every year

[Anonymous User]

stb cold offer

[PMan99]

Even if a firm doesn't cold offer you, if you really screwed up, they'll push you out asap and leave you with no marketable experience. Though that might still be better than a cold offer. Don't know how 3L hiring is these days.

[Anonymous User]

The 2015 SA thread discussed this at length. No point rehashing it here, but go check out the thread.

Also apparently even 100% offer firms will cold offer. It's just unlikely any cold offered simpson thacher or cravath summers are gonna come onto tls to talk about it.

Is there a reason STB/Cravath were the two names you mentioned here? Do you (or anyone else) know of these happening or just speculation? (2L currently considering similar options so curious about this) I saw the anon post but if anyone has any other info I'd appreciate it.

Even if a firm doesn't cold offer you, if you really screwed up, they'll push you out asap and leave you with no marketable experience. Though that might still be better than a cold offer. Don't know how 3L hiring is these days.

Also, when firms "push you out" - does anyone know if this by treating you poorly / making you miserable? Or is this like other industries with firms similar to biglaw where you find out that you were not promoted with your class year and that's your cue to leave?

[Anonymous User]

STB is being mentioned because someone was cold-offered here this year, and it's well-known throughout the summer class who it was. Not that anyone was particularly surprised; the possibility was being discussed even just a few weeks into the summer. It was well-deserved and not the sort of thing anyone who is even on the remotest fringes of socially normal should be worried about.

[Cogburn87]

Also, when firms "push you out" - does anyone know if this by treating you poorly / making you miserable? Or is this like other industries with firms similar to biglaw where you find out that you were not promoted with your class year and that's your cue to leave?

Odds are you'll be treated pretty poorly even if they aren't actively trying to get you to leave.

Firms holding people back a class year is pretty rare, though. A more common way for a firm to push someone out is to just stop staffing them on matters so they miss their hours.

[jbagelboy]

STB is being mentioned because someone was cold-offered here this year, and it's well-known throughout the summer class who it was. Not that anyone was particularly surprised; the possibility was being discussed even just a few weeks into the summer. It was well-deserved and not the sort of thing anyone who is even on the remotest fringes of socially normal should be worried about.

actually i just mentioned stb and cravath as random examples of elite white shoe 100% firms -- same goes for dpw and s&c, which are all pretty much interchangeable. but this is interesting too.

[Anonymous User]

would someone give some details about the Proskauer NY cold offer?

[Anonymous User]

The Proskauer NY cold-offer is scary because it was seemingly out of the blue. People are speculating it's because maybe the SA partied too hard, or maybe got too drunk or something, but it's not at all obvious why and people are very surprised. The SA had good social skills and seemingly good work ethic. If someone knows more, feel free to jump in.

[Anonymous User]

Does Proskauer NY has cold offer every year?

[Anonymous User]

Anon @ 4:50: I was a summer at Proskauer too. Did not know this happened. That really shocks me. I'm wondering who it could be. I did hear that a certain summer royally pissed off a very senior partner and received a highly negative mid-summer review, but no idea if that's the same person.

[Anonymous User]

Also, when firms "push you out" - does anyone know if this by treating you poorly / making you miserable? Or is this like other industries with firms similar to biglaw where you find out that you were not promoted with your class year and that's your cue to leave?

Odds are you'll be treated pretty poorly even if they aren't actively trying to get you to leave.

Firms holding people back a class year is pretty rare, though. A more common way for a firm to push someone out is to just stop staffing them on matters so they miss their hours.

From what I have seen the firm just doesn't give that associate any work.

[Desert Fox]