Fried Frank v. Cadwalader v. Cahill Forum

[Anonymous User]

Alright ladies and gents - Narrowed down my choices to these 3 firms.

Really like Cahill - they sold me on it being the best place to do finance work in NYC and the whole getting responsibility really early on. Good compensation. Only downside is the whole rep for being a 'prestigious sweatshop." I know I'll be working until midnight as a norm.

Anyway, which of the 3 firms are most prestigious for exit options as a third to fifth year? I know Cadwalader is known for its capital markets and Fried Frank for it's real estate. I know Cahill associates exit out to banks on the norm. That being said, Cadwalader is the highest ranked on vault. Are they just better known nationally? Would I be able to move to DC more easily if I go to Cadwalader? All 3 firms had 100% offer rates last year.

I have a general interest in corporate work, but no specific practice in mind.

Please explain your reasoning, as these seem like peer firms in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not in a position to vote with any authority, so I won't, but I'll mention that FF and Cadwalader both have DC offices of roughly the same size. FF probably has more of a corporate presence in DC with one of the larger corporate groups of any non-HQ DC office. Cadwalader's DC office is more of a specialty shop focused on Antitrust, Energy, and White Collar; the capital markets group has a tiny presence with only a couple partners and associates. Cahill technically has one partner in DC as well, but she focuses exclusively on telecom work, so that's not a viable transfer in any scenario.

Re: vault rankings. I doubt there is any meaningful difference once you get out of the V20 (maybe V15? V10 even?), and even then its going to be mostly arbitrary. Vault doesn't really mean all that much in the real world, and definitely far less than USNWR (which are basically a load of crap anyway). There are lots of meaningful things to consider, such as type of work you'd be doing, the people, the firm's financial health, and other intangibles, but beyond the most broad application, I wouldn't rely on Vault for much of anything besides a few anecdotes, and I wouldn't weight them much higher than the anecdotes you collect on here (i.e., both are useful, neither should carry much weight as they're just anecdotes).

Either way, you're in a good position with these offers. Best of luck!

[SweetrollStealer]

Follow your heart, OP

In all seriousness the workload at these firms is probably comparable and for reasons you've laid out they're all good at stuff.

[Anonymous User]

172 views and no votes, really? Hmm I didn't know that about Cadwalader DC, so thanks for that info. I've been to Fried Frank's DC office for a reception and they looked like they did have a solid enough office down there.


FF is band 5 for the elite in corporate/ M&A, cadwalader is band 3 in highly regarded. Cahill doesn't make the list.

[Anonymous User]

How prestigious is cahill in NY?

[Anonymous User]

Bump. Would also like to know the strength of Cahill's reputation.

[californiauser]

How prestigious is cahill in NY?

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

[Anonymous User]

How prestigious is cahill in NY?

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

Lol these vault rankings are useless. I mean Cahill beats out Sidley, Shearman, Milbank & Proskaur?

[Anonymous User]

I told my friend Cahill > Proskaur & Sidley and he got mad.

[Anonymous User]

I told my friend Cahill > Proskaur & Sidley and he got mad.

That seems like an unwarranted reaction. I picked Cahill over Proskauer and specifically asked my career counselor about overall reputation of the firms. He seemed to think there wasn't much of a difference between them, but Cahill is better for corporate and First Amendment/media lit while Proskauer is better for labor and sports lit.

[Anonymous User]

I told my friend Cahill > Proskaur & Sidley and he got mad.

That seems like an unwarranted reaction. I picked Cahill over Proskauer and specifically asked my career counselor about overall reputation of the firm. He seemed to think there wasn't much a difference between them, but Cahill is better for corporate and First Amendment/media lit while Proskauer is better for labor and sports lit.

Yeah, I don’t really see how this is such a contentious point. All the firms mentioned are effectively peer firms in NY. Look at the raw scores in that link to the Vault NY rankings posted above. No one, including vault, is saying Cahill is way better than those firms in NY. In fact, the difference between Cahill at #17 and #Proskauer at 20 is smaller than the difference between Cahill and the #16 firm.

I think it is totally legitimate to pick Cahill over any of those firms or even other higher ranked firms. It has higher PPP and RPL numbers than Shearman, Sidley, Milbank, or Prauskauer (or Fried Frank or Cadwalader). It is Elite Band 2 in Lit--higher than any of those other firms—and is very highly rated by Chambers in Banking & Finance and in Capital Markets. It also has several other respectable Chambers rankings in other practice areas.

There are perfectly good reasons to choose any of those firms, but it’s pretty silly to pretend the others are way better than Cahill or to “lol” or “get mad” at someone suggesting one might be slightly better than the others. If you like Shearman or Fried Frank more, go there. If you like Cahill more, go there. Those are all very good options and all are reasonably “prestigious” in New York.

[Anonymous User]

I told my friend Cahill > Proskaur & Sidley and he got mad.

That seems like an unwarranted reaction. I picked Cahill over Proskauer and specifically asked my career counselor about overall reputation of the firm. He seemed to think there wasn't much a difference between them, but Cahill is better for corporate and First Amendment/media lit while Proskauer is better for labor and sports lit.

Yeah, I don’t really see how this is such a contentious point. All the firms mentioned are effectively peer firms in NY. Look at the raw scores in that link to the Vault NY rankings posted above. No one, including vault, is saying Cahill is way better than those firms in NY. In fact, the difference between Cahill at #17 and #Proskauer at 20 is smaller than the difference between Cahill and the #16 firm.

I think it is totally legitimate to pick Cahill over any of those firms or even other higher ranked firms. It has higher PPP and RPL numbers than Shearman, Sidley, Milbank, or Prauskauer (or Fried Frank or Cadwalader). It is Elite Band 2 in Lit--higher than any of those other firms—and is very highly rated by Chambers in Banking & Finance and in Capital Markets. It also has several other respectable Chambers rankings in other practice areas.

There are perfectly good reasons to choose any of those firms, but it’s pretty silly to pretend the others are way better than Cahill or to “lol” or “get mad” at someone suggesting one might be slightly better than the others. If you like Shearman or Fried Frank more, go there. If you like Cahill more, go there. Those are all very good options and all are reasonably “prestigious” in New York.

Yep I totally agree. I think the reason for the surprise is because some law students take vault 100 rankings seriously, so they are surprised when they see Cahill near #50 and Sidley as like #17, and then hear the opposite for reputation within NY.

[Anonymous User]

bump. heard cahill transactional associates work nonstop, weekends etc.

[North]

bump. heard cahill transactional associates work nonstop, weekends etc.

That's going to be the case pretty much everywhere dude

[Anonymous User]

As a former Cahill associate, that's not necessarily true. It ebbs and flows on the corporate side just like everywhere else. When you're slammed, getting 2-4 hours of sleep is a luxury.

As far as getting responsibility early on at Cahill, I don't think that's true in corporate.

[Anonymous User]

As a former Cahill associate, that's not necessarily true. It ebbs and flows on the corporate side just like everywhere else. When you're slammed, getting 2-4 hours of sleep is a luxury.

As far as getting responsibility early on at Cahill, I don't think that's true in corporate.

Can you explain? I heard the teams were really leanly staffed so you do a lot of work as a corporate associate at Cahill. This doesn't translate to more responsibility? Did you work all day on the weekends too? Also, where did most of your class lateral/ exit to?

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Why? These are all virtually dead-even peer firms besides the vague Vault differences and the random outcome of this poll, which means exactly zilch. If one firm makes more sense based on practice area interests, then I can understand. Otherwise you probably want to choose based on fit, which would mean feel them out at the cb. But it's your life, OP. Best of luck.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thinking about just canceling my FF CB at this point.

I think this would be fine if you have an offer that you think you'd be "happy" with, especially if your prospective practice area is def. superior at Cahill or Cadwalader.

You seem very worried about prestige and FF is probably the least prestigious out of all of them, even if that is something most of us here would consider hogwash to begin with and their relative prestige levels are somewhat close anyways.

There isn't really a "wrong" answer here, so do what you want if you already see yourself at someplace

[californiauser]

How prestigious is cahill in NY?

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

Lol these vault rankings are useless. I mean Cahill beats out Sidley, Shearman, Milbank & Proskaur?

Useless because you disagree, or for some other reason? Why are you anonymous?