NYC Biglaw v. Secondary Markets Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 2L at MVP and I'm fortunate enough to have offers from V20-V50 NYC, my home market, and a secondary market to which I have ties. My question is--if I do not want to stay in New York long term, what are the benefits to be derived from working at one of these firms for a few years?

FWIW I'm interested mostly in lit, and my dream job would be an AUSA. It seems to me like the exit options out of the big NY firms are focused mostly on in-house positions, which I have no interest in.

So--is it really worth it to go to NY for a few years for the exit options? Or should I start out at my home/secondary market and enjoy the better QOL, higher buying power, etc. before I look to transition? Also, my grades are shit (below median) so I don't know how much that will matter later in my career.

[thesealocust]

There's a lot to be said for starting where you want to wind up. It will be possible to move from NYC into the market of your choice down the road, but if a tour of duty in New York doesn't thrill you... what's the point, really?

But it depends a lot on the exact firms and regions in question. Big NYC firms are often more financially stable and sure-bets for a few years. Some of my friends who started in secondary markets wound up forced out very early because their firm ran into financial trouble (although obviously in a big down turn you're not safe in NYC either).

FWIW I'm interested mostly in lit, and my dream job would be an AUSA. It seems to me like the exit options out of the big NY firms are focused mostly on in-house

Huh? Very few litigators go in-house. To put it in perspective, I believe the stat is that 2/3 of all in-house attorneys came from big firm transnational practices, but 2/3 of all big firm lawyers are in litigation.

Things like AUSA gigs are exactly where name-brand firms in major markets shine with respect to exit options.

[Anonymous User]

Huh? Very few litigators go in-house. To put it in perspective, I believe the stat is that 2/3 of all in-house attorneys came from big firm transnational practices, but 2/3 of all big firm lawyers are in litigation.

Things like AUSA gigs are exactly where name-brand firms in major markets shine with respect to exit options.[/quote]

Yeah, I wasn't clear--I meant that I thought the exit options that were worth anything from NY bigly were all focused on in-house. I honestly didn't know that it also mattered for AUSA. From talking to AUSAs before they said it hadn't really mattered where they had worked prior to becoming an AUSA--to be fair though they were all in smaller markets and had worked in the large firms in those cities.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

It is very common to go NYC big law-> secondary market big law.

Another thing to consider is almost all NY big law firms have 100% offer rate (or extremely close to it) and secondary market offer rates can be all over the map.

[Anonymous User]

It is very common to go NYC big law-> secondary market big law.

Another thing to consider is almost all NY big law firms have 100% offer rate (or extremely close to it) and secondary market offer rates can be all over the map.

Yeah I'm just trying to figure out how much of a benefit it could possibly be to go to a NYC firm first--does that resume line really open a lot of doors. As in, would working at a V20 NYC firm for three years offset below-median grades for later exit options?

[thesealocust]

It is very common to go NYC big law-> secondary market big law.

Another thing to consider is almost all NY big law firms have 100% offer rate (or extremely close to it) and secondary market offer rates can be all over the map.

Yeah I'm just trying to figure out how much of a benefit it could possibly be to go to a NYC firm first--does that resume line really open a lot of doors. As in, would working at a V20 NYC firm for three years offset below-median grades for later exit options?

Absolutely. Grades and law school matter very little in lateral hiring compared to your experience and connections.

But again the circular question: if your goal is to lateral to a firm in a smaller market, why not just start there? There's no good or easy answer, and a lot will just depend on your personal preferences. If a few years in NYC sounds fun, go for it! If it sounds miserable, and you have offers somewhere that you would be happier, take one and never look back.

Unfortunately you won't find hard and fast answers about "exit options" because it winds up being highly personal and there aren't good data sets. It's frustrating, I know, but c'est la vie. The one thing that is probably safe to say is moving from a secondary market to a major market will be more difficult, but it doesn't sound like you expect that to be a desire.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah as of now it does sound kind of miserable to live in NYC for a few years--plus I have a lot of debt that will be easier to pay off when Im not paying so much for cost of living in NY. While I think I am set on certain markets, I don't want to pigeon hole myself based on wanting to live in relative comfort for a few years out of law school.

But since it is hard to lateral to a larger market from a smaller market, does that apply even within the same firm, i.e., Jones Day Cleveland to JD NY or DC?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Yeah as of now it does sound kind of miserable to live in NYC for a few years--plus I have a lot of debt that will be easier to pay off when Im not paying so much for cost of living in NY. While I think I am set on certain markets, I don't want to pigeon hole myself based on wanting to live in relative comfort for a few years out of law school.

But since it is hard to lateral to a larger market from a smaller market, does that apply even within the same firm, i.e., Jones Day Cleveland to JD NY or DC?

I think it's a mistake to assume you can make this type of move, even though it might be possible. It's akin to attending a lower ranked law school with the plan to transfer up.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah as of now it does sound kind of miserable to live in NYC for a few years--plus I have a lot of debt that will be easier to pay off when Im not paying so much for cost of living in NY. While I think I am set on certain markets, I don't want to pigeon hole myself based on wanting to live in relative comfort for a few years out of law school.

But since it is hard to lateral to a larger market from a smaller market, does that apply even within the same firm, i.e., Jones Day Cleveland to JD NY or DC?

I think it's a mistake to assume you can make this type of move, even though it might be possible. It's akin to attending a lower ranked law school with the plan to transfer up.

Oh i don't assume I can make that kind of move--i would honestly be okay with it being possible. But that kind of possibility seems like it is a better chance than lateraling from a lower-ranked, smaller firm in a regional market, rather than the branch office of a V20.

[Anonymous User]

bump. any other thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

It's akin to attending a lower ranked law school with the plan to transfer up.

That was my plan. Worked for me. But then again so did everything. I guess special snowflakes do exist.

[Anonymous User]

OP - congrats on all of the offers. In my opinion, as most have already said here, you have a couple options. If you really don't want to live in NYC for a few years, I think going with a regional/secondary market is a very smart choice. However, if you have any desire of working biglaw in NYC, now is the time to do it. I can't think of too many attorneys that start off in smaller/regional markets and lateral into NYC. The approach I took is that it's must easier to lateral out of big law in any large market than it is to lateral in - I didn't want to close any potential career opportunities, and if you start in NYC biglaw, you definitely will not be closing the door on any future career opportunities. Good luck with the decision

[Johann]

No need to prove yourself in the ny market. Go where you want to be long term.

[beautyistruth]

OP - congrats on all of the offers. In my opinion, as most have already said here, you have a couple options. If you really don't want to live in NYC for a few years, I think going with a regional/secondary market is a very smart choice. However, if you have any desire of working biglaw in NYC, now is the time to do it. I can't think of too many attorneys that start off in smaller/regional markets and lateral into NYC. The approach I took is that it's must easier to lateral out of big law in any large market than it is to lateral in - I didn't want to close any potential career opportunities, and if you start in NYC biglaw, you definitely will not be closing the door on any future career opportunities. Good luck with the decision

Isn't there a chance you get put into a very NYC-centric practice group such as structured finance/project finance, etc? That seems to be the bread and butter of a lot of NYC big law firms, particularly once you get out of the top firms. If this happens, what will moving to a secondary be like down the road?

[thesealocust]

Still doable. You have a good amount of control over your practice group - don't go into a firm or group that's exclusive to NYC if your plan is to lateral to Kansas. Plus if you can't get what you want at giant nameless NYC firm A, giant nameless NYC firm B is probably hiring laterals for that group.