I got fired from Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP Forum

[EquallyWrong]

Yeah, there's not a lot to this. It's a situation easy to envision and this account doesn't come with very many surprises or insights. Like, he's only half as self aware as he needs to be and his bitterness at BigLaw feels boilerplate. Dostoevsky is great and maybe even an apt reference, but he didn't do anything with it. It bugged me because it felt like Dostoevsky and Bolano where in there to make the point that see, I care about literature and am a real human being but BigLaw tried to turn me into a corporate robot whore so be on my side, gentle reader. In terms of how it is written, it's fine. Can people who hate long sentences as, idk, some sign of moral laxity fuck off forever? In truth, what this really lacks is some gallows humor thrown in. It is a really comical situation, to me, with how they handle it.

[WestOfTheRest]

The idea of leaving a big law firm at 4pm on a weekday to go home and read a novel is not a good one.

Really? Because to me it sounds like exactly how you should treat it. The only time you get to yourself in biglaw is the time you claim. People who go crazy, IMO, are the ones who sit at the office from 9:30 AM until 4:00 PM without work because they're a little slow, only to have shit piled on them at 4:30 PM and have to work until 8:00 AM the next morning. That's a long fucking day that could have been bearable if only they hadn't wasted away the earlier part of the day sitting at a desk. And trust me, if you had been busy from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, no one is going to care at 4:30 PM when they have another 12 hours of work for you to do. This goes double for a place like DPW, where the office is so big that nobody will even notice if you've stepped out two hours early on a slow day.

I think if by your own admission you were doing the bare minimum and taking no initiative to ensure you have any work, and if you were so clearly loathing your job that pays (by third year with bonus) over 200k a year, blaming the economy exemplifies an entitled attitude.

Where does he say he did the bare minimum? In his first paragraph he says, "I want you to believe that . . . I expended minimal effort" (i.e., he wishes he could say he did the bare minimum in order to protect his ego, implying that he in fact did not do the bare minimum). In typical TLS fashion, someone who has no idea wtf he is talking about tells everyone that someone else is full of shit.

Once you actually start working and you're on call 24/7, and almost half your paycheck goes to taxes, and then half of what's left over goes to paying ridiculous rent in NYC (for a shitty one bedroom apartment no less), and a significant chunk of it goes towards paying your student loans, you come back and tell me that your entitled because you loath your job that pays over 200k a year.

But hey, maybe you're cut out for it. We really won't know until you're sitting in the office past 1 AM for the tenth day in a row and a partner calls and asks, "Why the fuck haven't you done X yet?"

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think if by your own admission you were doing the bare minimum and taking no initiative to ensure you have any work, and if you were so clearly loathing your job that pays (by third year with bonus) over 200k a year, blaming the economy exemplifies an entitled attitude.

I think you're reading a lot into the piece that wasn't there. He never claims the only reason he got fired was the economy - just that the economy required firing someone, and he was that person for other reasons he acknowledged. It's also pretty clear that huge numbers of people in biglaw hate their jobs - I don't think hating your job has anything to do with being fired. Also,

He's also not making an argument for not being fired - he's documenting what went through his head throughout the process. It all rang pretty true to me.

Have you ever been fired (from a comparable kind of job)?

[First Offense]

The idea of leaving a big law firm at 4pm on a weekday to go home and read a novel is not a good one.

Really? Because to me it sounds like exactly how you should treat it. The only time you get to yourself in biglaw is the time you claim. People who go crazy, IMO, are the ones who sit at the office from 9:30 AM until 4:00 PM without work because they're a little slow, only to have shit piled on them at 4:30 PM and have to work until 8:00 AM the next morning. That's a long fucking day that could have been bearable if only they hadn't wasted away the earlier part of the day sitting at a desk. And trust me, if you had been busy from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, no one is going to care at 4:30 PM when they have another 12 hours of work for you to do. This goes double for a place like DPW, where the office is so big that nobody will even notice if you've stepped out two hours early on a slow day.

I think if by your own admission you were doing the bare minimum and taking no initiative to ensure you have any work, and if you were so clearly loathing your job that pays (by third year with bonus) over 200k a year, blaming the economy exemplifies an entitled attitude.

Where does he say he did the bare minimum? In his first paragraph he says, "I want you to believe that . . . I expended minimal effort" (i.e., he wishes he could say he did the bare minimum in order to protect his ego, implying that he in fact did not do the bare minimum). In typical TLS fashion, someone who has no idea wtf he is talking about tells everyone that someone else is full of shit.

Once you actually start working and you're on call 24/7, and almost half your paycheck goes to taxes, and then half of what's left over goes to paying ridiculous rent in NYC (for a shitty one bedroom apartment no less), and a significant chunk of it goes towards paying your student loans, you come back and tell me that your entitled because you loath your job that pays over 200k a year.

But hey, maybe you're cut out for it. We really won't know until you're sitting in the office past 1 AM for the tenth day in a row and a partner calls and asks, "Why the fuck haven't you done X yet?"

I've worked longer hours and been on call for less pay. Pardon me for not pitying someone who makes six figures a year.

I swear, TLS is full of the whiniest of whiney bitches.

Edit: And if he's leaving at four to read a book (an admittedly good one, at least), and states that he did nothing to seek out work after his cases cleared, but rather waited until he was assigned something, I'm going to err on the side that he was lazy.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Dude, come on. The "I worked just as long hours for less pay so complaining about biglaw makes you a whiny bitch!!!" is such a bad look. Entirely different things can be just as bad for different reasons.

And seriously, the blog author never said he shouldn't be fired or you should feel bad for him. He was just describing his experience. I don't think anyone is going to feel good in his shoes; no one likes getting fired. Your reaction seems overblown.

[First Offense]

Dude, come on. The "I worked just as long hours for less pay so complaining about biglaw makes you a whiny bitch!!!" is such a bad look. Entirely different things can be just as bad for different reasons.

And seriously, the blog author never said he shouldn't be fired or you should feel bad for him. He was just describing his experience. I don't think anyone is going to feel good in his shoes; no one likes getting fired. Your reaction seems overblown.

If he's not seeking empathy, why write the thing in the first place? It's very existence (paired with the laughable Dostoevsky call-in, creating a bridge in the reader's mind to his works whether intentional or no) implies some burdensome struggle paired with an injustice. Add in the exhaustively pedantic, wannabe DFW writing style... yeah, this is shit. Also - probably the first four posts in the thread were some manner of "OMG this is like my struggle EXACTLY!!!!!!!!" - someone needs to call this bullshit out.

And yeah - the realization that people are out there working a lot harder, a lot longer, and for A LOT less pay limits the whiny bitch in you. Biglaw is hard, but you're well compensated - probably too well compensated by many metrics - for your work. But since 98% of big lawyers were born with a silver spoon in their ass, they don't realize how good they have it. We have a fucking thread about renting a beach house as a second year in the lounge now. Fucking whiners the lot of you.

[A. Nony Mouse]

okay honey.

[ymmv]

Dude, come on. The "I worked just as long hours for less pay so complaining about biglaw makes you a whiny bitch!!!" is such a bad look. Entirely different things can be just as bad for different reasons.

And seriously, the blog author never said he shouldn't be fired or you should feel bad for him. He was just describing his experience. I don't think anyone is going to feel good in his shoes; no one likes getting fired. Your reaction seems overblown.

If he's not seeking empathy, why write the thing in the first place?

To entertain? To vent? To provoke thought? To drive traffic to his blog? Who fucking knows.

It's very existence (paired with the laughable Dostoevsky call-in, creating a bridge in the reader's mind to his works whether intentional or no) implies some burdensome struggle paired with an injustice. Add in the exhaustively pedantic, wannabe DFW writing style... yeah, this is shit. Also - probably the first four posts in the thread were some manner of "OMG this is like my struggle EXACTLY!!!!!!!!" - someone needs to call this bullshit out.

And yeah - the realization that people are out there working a lot harder, a lot longer, and for A LOT less pay limits the whiny bitch in you. Biglaw is hard, but you're well compensated - probably too well compensated by many metrics - for your work. But since 98% of big lawyers were born with a silver spoon in their ass, they don't realize how good they have it. We have a fucking thread about renting a beach house as a second year in the lounge now. Fucking whiners the lot of you.

Jesus Christ you're a turd.

[First Offense]

Also - for people in our age group big law makes easily top 1% in income, but makes up at least 12% of the whining on the internet. This place is basically tumblr.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Maybe that's because income isn't the whole story, and there are lots of entirely different ways why one's work life can suck. Not being the most oppressed workers in the world doesn't mean your work can't still suck.

[First Offense]

Maybe that's because income isn't the whole story, and there are lots of entirely different ways why one's work life can suck.

Like having a lot of bosses telling you different things? Like having to be on call? Like hating the people you work with? Like doing what amounts to little more than busy work? Like dealing with annoying bureaucratic bullshit?

That's most jobs. Hell, that may be all jobs.

Saw your edit: Fair. There's nothing that says that Biglaw can't suck. That being said - to hear TLS talk about it, it is the worst thing in the world. Even with the six figures in debt the majority of us take out, we have so much more life flexibility that others don't have. Do you know how many people can afford to leave their job after three years if they hate it and do a gig that pays half of your previous salary (or even less) and still have a halfway decent QoL? Not many.

Instead of focusing on the struggles that are particular to Biglaw, people on here instead behave like they're carrying a cross that no one else can fathom. It isn't a focused "my job sucks", but rather it's spoken of in absolute terms. Probably 90% of people in our age group would kill to be in our shoes - instead of acknowledging that, we whine about how they don't even know how bad it is to have your boss call you in on a Friday to work the weekend.

[anyriotgirl]

why don't you share what your job was and what it entailed, and then everyone can compare notes

[Cogburn87]

Also - for people in our age group big law makes easily top 1% in income, but makes up at least 12% of the whining on the internet. This place is basically tumblr.

When is ur start date? Ur gonna love it.

[First Offense]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

[legends159]

This is some click bait BS.

[ymmv]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

What does the First Amendment have to do with the price of tea in you're an idiot?

[First Offense]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

What does the First Amendment have to do with the price of tea in you're an idiot?

I'm sure this is much wittier than I'm giving it credit for.

[TatteredDignity]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

What does the First Amendment have to do with the price of tea in you're an idiot?

The First Amendment to the Constitution of TLS, obvs. No one can be banned for shitpoasting. Although mod-icial activism has created an exception for bans when they feel like it.

[chuckbass]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

You sound like a fun person to be around.

[First Offense]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

What does the First Amendment have to do with the price of tea in you're an idiot?

The First Amendment to the Constitution of TLS, obvs. No one can be banned for shitpoasting. Although mod-icial activism has created an exception for bans when they feel like it.

TIL that thinking Biglaw is more than a single step above slavery = shitposting.

[First Offense]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

You sound like a fun person to be around.

Tell me more about how you mock your fellow 2Ls, WUSTL transfer.

[hdunlop]

Both sides of this debate are correct in their beliefs about the other

[thesealocust]

Heh, something very similar to this debate (and/or whining, depending on your perspective) in the NYT/on reddit today - about big tech companies like amazon.com:

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/com ... onditions/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/techn ... .html?_r=0

Nearly every person I worked with, I saw cry at their desk.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Maybe that's because income isn't the whole story, and there are lots of entirely different ways why one's work life can suck.

Like having a lot of bosses telling you different things? Like having to be on call? Like hating the people you work with? Like doing what amounts to little more than busy work? Like dealing with annoying bureaucratic bullshit?

That's most jobs. Hell, that may be all jobs.

Honestly, those things aren't really what I've seen most people here complain about in biglaw, though. "Being on call," to me, isn't the same as sitting in your office with nothing to do until 5:30, when a boss tells you you have to complete a new project that they need by morning, especially when the only reason you didn't get it earlier was someone else didn't feel like dealing with it until then (or the morning deadline is artificial). Maybe you mean something different by "being on call," though. As for the work, people (in corporate, not lit) make fun of changing commas, but I don't think people generally call it busy work - the issue may be that it's not always inherently very interesting or challenging work, but it has to get done under challenging deadlines with little training and little tolerance for error. But the combination of uninteresting and high stress doesn't, to me, mean the same thing as busy work. And I haven't seen people really complain about getting told different things by different bosses, or about dealing with bureaucratic bullshit. (Except maybe keeping track of hours/billing time, but that's a very specific kind of pain in the ass which doesn't really match what I think of as "bureaucratic bullshit.")

Saw your edit: Fair. There's nothing that says that Biglaw can't suck. That being said - to hear TLS talk about it, it is the worst thing in the world. Even with the six figures in debt the majority of us take out, we have so much more life flexibility that others don't have. Do you know how many people can afford to leave their job after three years if they hate it and do a gig that pays half of your previous salary (or even less) and still have a halfway decent QoL? Not many.

Instead of focusing on the struggles that are particular to Biglaw, people on here instead behave like they're carrying a cross that no one else can fathom. It isn't a focused "my job sucks", but rather it's spoken of in absolute terms. Probably 90% of people in our age group would kill to be in our shoes - instead of acknowledging that, we whine about how they don't even know how bad it is to have your boss call you in on a Friday to work the weekend.

Yeah, I agree that there's a lot of privilege involved in being in biglaw. I think most people acknowledge that it's not like they're working in a coal mine - they talk about it as being the worst because this is a law school board and there's an implicit expectation that they're characterizing as the worst within the legal profession, not life generally (and even then, yeah, it's a privileged position compared to being in shitlaw with similar hours but crap pay or exit options). It's true that not everyone realizes that, but I also don't think it has to be expressly referenced every time anyone here talks about their job for that to be understood. But then, you and I may just see that differently, based on our different responses to the original link.

[chuckbass]

Also - totally aware that I'm going against the hivemind here and no one will change their thought process based on my ramblings. Just exercising my good ol' first amendment rights and rolling my eyes at the desire of everyone in our generation to be victims.

You sound like a fun person to be around.

Tell me more about how you mock your fellow 2Ls, WUSTL transfer.

Aw you're cute.