NYC Corporate -- Help choosing firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

I never thought I'd post something like this because I never thought I'd be lucky enough to get more than one offer, but now that I have I am having a lot of trouble selecting between them.

Choosing between Cravath, Skadden, S&C, DPW and Simpson.

Interested exclusively in corporate work, specifically M&A and maybe a little capital markets. International presence is important for me, but at best it's a tie breaker. Personality wise, I kind of want a place where people are friendly and cordial, but not overly social in a boisterous kind of way (That pulls me away from Skadden). I'm attracted to old, traditional type of places like Cravath (but I don't like their strict rotation) and DPW (but I've heard their M&A isn't as cutting edge as some other places, like S&C). I'd pick S&C, but I've heard horror stories, mostly on this board.

I know I have 20-whatever days to decide but I don't see how time will change anything. Second looks etc. are great but I am the type of person who is inclined to form a favorable opinion about anyone who is pleasant and friendly towards me, and so far everyone fits that bill. Please help!

[Tiago Splitter]

All of these firms will rotate you early on except for S&C, so if you'd prefer not to be in a rotation S&C makes plenty of sense. S&C also happens to be the only one located downtown, which I think is the best location, but you may disagree. All of these places are fine choices so don't beat yourself up too much.

[Anonymous User]

dont buy the horror story hype. Some partners/associates at S&C like every other firm are more unbearable to work for than others. generally, you can avoid working for such people because S&C permits organic distribution of work, with central assignment distribution available if needed. while there are such unbearable partners/associates at S&C, like at every other biglaw firm, there are many times more who are pleasant and brilliant and respectful. every firm has good and bad. at least at S&C you have 18 months before any sub specialization in addition to being able to get work organically so you can more easily float around subject matter and assigning partners/associates. regarding hours, work will be there if you want it, it will be there if you dont want it. like at other firms, the ones getting crushed with hours dont say no when offered work or are working for people that make it impossible or nearly impossible to say no regardless of preexisting work obligations. i would guess that such scenarios are equally likely amongst all the firms you're considering, but I only have experience at one.

[itbdvorm]

I never thought I'd post something like this because I never thought I'd be lucky enough to get more than one offer, but now that I have I am having a lot of trouble selecting between them.

Choosing between Cravath, Skadden, S&C, DPW and Simpson.

Interested exclusively in corporate work, specifically M&A and maybe a little capital markets. International presence is important for me, but at best it's a tie breaker. Personality wise, I kind of want a place where people are friendly and cordial, but not overly social in a boisterous kind of way (That pulls me away from Skadden). I'm attracted to old, traditional type of places like Cravath (but I don't like their strict rotation) and DPW (but I've heard their M&A isn't as cutting edge as some other places, like S&C). I'd pick S&C, but I've heard horror stories, mostly on this board.

I know I have 20-whatever days to decide but I don't see how time will change anything. Second looks etc. are great but I am the type of person who is inclined to form a favorable opinion about anyone who is pleasant and friendly towards me, and so far everyone fits that bill. Please help!

Remember, just because a firm could give you one interview slate of good people (presumably in a quiet, pre-OCI period) doesn't mean they can give you two.

Go back. Ask harder questions. Then go with your gut.

These are all great firms. There will be differences in fit, as well as assignment style. See what works for you.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with itbdvorm -- that's a great list. Add Cleary and Wachtell, and you would have all of the top M&A shops. Work will be similar at all of them (though there will be differences -- Cravath will be more domestic than S&C; Simpson will be more PE oriented; DPW has somewhat less dealflow--but disagree that it is less "cutting edge"), but all of them offer great opportunities. You need to figure out which one will feel most comfortable with -- take your time on the decision, meet with more folks, ask questions, think about how assignments are distributed. Also think about where you plan to live -- as mr. S&C alludes to, there is a big difference in commute time between downtown and midtown depending on where you are coming from (where do you plan to be in a few years -- Westchester, Brooklyn?). An an extra 30 minutes roundtrip is an hour a day...adds up -- if it is a push, I'd decide on geography.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks, everyone!! That's helped me a lot in terms of how to think about the choice.

Can anyone speak a little more about the culture at Simpson? I haven't heard anything about it.

[skers]

OP here. Thanks, everyone!! That's helped me a lot in terms of how to think about the choice.

Can anyone speak a little more about the culture at Simpson? I haven't heard anything about it.

you're going to get a whole lot less of a cultural feel from strangers on the internet, then you know, actually interacting w/ people at the firm dude.

[Anonymous User]

^True, but what I meant is "What does it feel like to work there?" I think often at CBs and second looks, you get the answer to "What does it feel like to meet 3 lawyers, not working, who are on their best behavior and happy to get a free lunch taking you out?"

Also, a specific Cravath question, if anyone has any experience with this: Is it odd to rotate into a subgroup as a fourth year, for the first time? I would think that being a mid level with essentially less-than-first-year abilities in that subgroup would be quite discomfiting, especially when you're supervising a junior who might know what she's talking about a lot more than you?

Thanks again. I appreciate all this input.

[Anonymous User]

Also, a specific Cravath question, if anyone has any experience with this: Is it odd to rotate into a subgroup as a fourth year, for the first time? I would think that being a mid level with essentially less-than-first-year abilities in that subgroup would be quite discomfiting, especially when you're supervising a junior who might know what she's talking about a lot more than you?

Thanks again. I appreciate all this input.

The thing is, your lawyering skills build on themselves. So you're not a 4th year with first year abilities, nor are you treated like that. There is some learning curve in each rotation, but if people couldn't handle it then the system wouldn't work.

Also, it's somewhat ambitious to expect to be there much more than 4 years anyway.

[Anonymous User]

First off, congratulations on all these offers. I would group these firms into 4 groups: S&C and Cravath; DPW; Simpson; and Skadden.

S&C and Cravath: These two firms are as close as you can get in terms of reputation, culture, and exit opportunity. Both have top public M&A practices, top capital market practices, up-and-coming private M&A practices. As mentioned before, S&C has a stronger international presence. S&C has closer relationships with top investment banks. Cravath makes you choose between corporate and litigation before your SA, while you can try both at S&C. While both emphasizes the generalist approach, you rotate at Cravath. S&C has a free-market system. While S&C arguably was a clearly better choice for corporate during the past few years emerging from the recession, Cravath seemed to have caught up in the past couple of years.

DPW: Known for its capital markets practice. While DPW does a lot of capital markets deals, the sophistication of capital markets deals are similar to those S&C, Cravath, etc. One risk here is you might not get into the M&A group if the M&A market cools over the next couple of years. DPW is known as the nice firm, though as mentioned above, there is a similar range of personalities at each of these firms. When a deal needs to close, performance is valued above all else at all of these firms.

Skadden: Great corporate practice. Has the widest set of niches among these firms. Work here is more focused on F500, as opposed to investment banks. Skadden is known for both public and private M&A, though Skadden is regarded as less selective as the other firms.

STB: Great PE practice. The work here differs the most from the other firms. The work here revolves around PE, from fund formation, to financing deals, to M&A, to IPO. Clients include Blackstone, Silver Lake, and KKR. STB has led on prominent tech deals. Among the big NYC firms, STB is as close to tech as you can get (excluding Kirkland), and it thus is a great choice if you ever want to move into the tech space.