DOT Honors Program - Recruiter Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

if we didnt get a second round invite yet, are we officially out? I did an OCI. i'm assuming yes, but i really thought it went well

[Anonymous User]

Thanks again for doing this, your insight has been really helpful! I was invited for a second round interview yesterday and I had a few more questions.

Are there any major differences in how I should approach the second round interview? during the screener (1 hour over the phone) the questions were mostly general (challenges I've faced, why I want DOT etc).

My interest is in the litigation-like (administrative trials/enforcement) work done by the DOT, are honors attorneys allows to focus on an area of interest or are they mostly generalist that work on whatever projects need attention?

Is there anything about the DOT program (good or bad) that you think I should know that I wouldn't learn from the info available online?

Do you have a sense of what % of attorneys that go through the program are actually hired and able to stick around long term? Worst case scenario, say no DOT offices are hiring at the end of the program, what are the exit options like?

Really appreciate your help.

Every interviewer is different so I can't give you much insight about what to expect during the second round interview. You will be seeing two new interviewers and they may repeat some of the more basic questions you answered from your first round interview. The only difference from our end is that we have a writing sample from you for the second round, so it's reasonable to prepare to talk about that.

In terms of work, you control which offices you go to, to the extent that your preferences don't conflict with other members of the class. In that case, you have to figure out how to work it out. In any given office, the staff are generally receptive if you express preferences about the type of work you are interested in, but you will also be expected to help on other projects and issues that may need additional support. In general, you have an ability to direct a significant portion of your work in the program toward your interest, but the most successful Honors Attorneys are also willing to provide good work product in whatever area an office needs during those four months.

I probably can't say anything interesting in response to your third question on the forum, but after your two second round interviews you will also have an opportunity to speak with a current member of the Honors Attorney class completely off-the-record. That's a great opportunity to ask those kinds of questions.

The agency can't make any binding commitments of employment, but there has not been a case in recent memory where an Honors Attorney wanted to be hired into a full-time position and there was not a position somewhere they could go to. That being said, Congress can always do something crazy with the agency funding that might prevent positions from being available (they got close with sequestration). But that's a risk with any federal position, not just DOT. Also remember that the agency has invested a good bit of time and money in selecting and employing the Honors Attorney class, so they have some investment as well in making sure you have somewhere to go. For that reason I don't have much evidence to base an opinion on exit options, since I don't know of anyone who completed the program and then tried to seek employment elsewhere without starting in DOT full-time. Every once in a while there have been people in the program who took a position elsewhere during their first year in the program (either because DOT just wasn't a good fit, or they really wanted to focus on specific work they couldn't find in DOT). So from that example I can at least say that Honors Attorneys aren't un-hirable elsewhere.

[Anonymous User]

if we didnt get a second round invite yet, are we officially out? I did an OCI. i'm assuming yes, but i really thought it went well

I don't know the schedule for invites, so I can't say for sure. I know the review committee was looking at first round applicants on a rolling basis. I would say that if you haven't heard by October 15 or so, that's probably a reasonable point to assume it's a no.

If you don't get a second round invite (and this goes to anyone reading), please know that the numbers involved make this process very difficult. I had a handful of applicants I interviewed that I felt were extremely qualified and 100% deserved a second round interview. But if the committee accepted my recommendations, I would have had a ratio of 10:1 in terms of total applicants to second round invites in the pool of people I looked at. The actual ratio is probably closer to 25:1. Now maybe I had an unusually high concentration of good applicants, but even so the math just doesn't work out for a lot of very qualified applicants. It's the worst part of the process (and the part I hated most as an law school job-seeker myself), but not receiving a second round interview doesn't mean you had a bad interview or were a bad candidate. It just means there were a handful of people who were slightly more qualified.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much for answering questions.

-Do you have any idea approximately how many people got second round interviews?
-How does a change in the White House affect, if at all, the people within DOT?
-In case there's a government shutdown this month, will be notified about second rounds being cancelled? I think I recall the government shutting down 2 years ago when callbacks were supposed to happen.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much for answering questions.

-Do you have any idea approximately how many people got second round interviews?
-How does a change in the White House affect, if at all, the people within DOT?
-In case there's a government shutdown this month, will be notified about second rounds being cancelled? I think I recall the government shutting down 2 years ago when callbacks were supposed to happen.

I don't know if the hiring committee has completed its second round invites, or what the number may be. I know their target was around 80 in prior years.

For the most part, transportation infrastructure is a pretty non-partisan issue, so changes in White House administrations don't affect the substantive policies of DOT the way they do in other agencies. Still, like all agencies, a change in the White House means a change in all of the political appointees in the agency.

Two years ago the government shut down at this same time, right before callbacks. Everything got pushed back 2-3 weeks, and the committee worked with the applicants to make sure everyone was in the loop about what was going on. I would expect the same procedure this time, though in my personal opinion I think a shutdown is unlikely this October.

[Anonymous User]

EIGHTY? 80 second round interviews?..... for 8-10 positions?.....thats brutal

[Anonymous User]

EIGHTY? 80 second round interviews?..... for 8-10 positions?.....thats brutal

Eighty might sound high relative to 8-10 positions, but it's miniscule in the context of 2000+ applicants. If you were identified as the 50th best applicant out of 2000, would you rather be rejected after a single interview, or would you rather be given another round of interviews to make a good impression and move up from 50 to 10? I can say that there is no significant distinction among the callback applicants in a given year. All are highly qualified and all have a realistic chance of being hired with a good interview.

Also, keep in mind that the numbers are constantly in flux as people take other positions or otherwise drop out past the second round interview. You will generally have fewer than 80 candidates to choose from by the time it comes to make offers.

[A. Nony Mouse]

EIGHTY? 80 second round interviews?..... for 8-10 positions?.....thats brutal

That's absolutely typical for government honors programs.

[Anonymous User]

Hi, thank you very much for providing this information. Do you have any suggestions about the callback interviews? (how they're conducted, what they generally look for).

[Anonymous User]

Hi, thank you very much for providing this information. Do you have any suggestions about the callback interviews? (how they're conducted, what they generally look for).

You meet with two different attorneys and then meet with a current honors attorney. Lasts about 2 hours total.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for doing this! I have a callback next week.

What would you say is the most useful prior work experience that would prepare someone for working in the DOT? (besides a prior DOT internship). Any particular attributes that you think make a successful DOT honors attorney? Any particular quirks of working for the DOT or the federal govt. in general that you think people underestimate or are not aware of?

Really appreciate your insight.

[Anonymous User]

How does one enter the DOT in an off-year (I understand the Honors program only recruits on alternating years). Though I graduate this year, I have a clerkship, so I will be looking in an off-year. Can you apply with one year of legal experience? Am I just stuck?

[Nebby]

How does one enter the DOT in an off-year (I understand the Honors program only recruits on alternating years). Though I graduate this year, I have a clerkship, so I will be looking in an off-year. Can you apply with one year of legal experience? Am I just stuck?

Are you taking the bar? Once you're licensed you can apply to any federal job, which includes DOT postings. You just won't be able to do it via the honors attorney program.

[Anonymous User]

How does one enter the DOT in an off-year (I understand the Honors program only recruits on alternating years). Though I graduate this year, I have a clerkship, so I will be looking in an off-year. Can you apply with one year of legal experience? Am I just stuck?

Unfortunately you are probably stuck with respect to the DOT Honors Attorney program. Similar to the DOJ Honors Program, you are able to apply to the DOT program a year after you graduate if you are doing a clerkship or 1-year fellowship immediately after graduation, though in your case your clerkship will finish in an off-year for Honors Attorney hiring. DOT does post entry level positions every once in a while on USA-JOBS. You can sort by agency and by GS-scale (look for positions at GS-11, though with a clerkship you may be eligible to enter as a GS-12). I'd estimate that there are maybe 5 jobs a year that come open in the Department where the office is specifically looking for a new or recent law school grad.

Thank you for doing this! I have a callback next week.

What would you say is the most useful prior work experience that would prepare someone for working in the DOT? (besides a prior DOT internship). Any particular attributes that you think make a successful DOT honors attorney? Any particular quirks of working for the DOT or the federal govt. in general that you think people underestimate or are not aware of?

Really appreciate your insight.

I've addressed some of these in prior responses. Any work experience is good experience as long as it's substantive. In my experience, the average government/public interest internship gives more substantive experience than the average firm SA position, but that is in no way a blanket rule. In general, the attributes of a successful DOT Honors Attorney as the same for any legal position - strong writing and analytic skills, self-direction and motivation, and good interpersonal skills.

[Nebby]

I had my final round interview with DOT and it was probably the best interview I've ever had. I got lucky and both of the attorneys I met had personalities that meshed well with mine. Everything ITT helped me prepare well for it, too. I can't stress enough, as the recruiter above notes, how important it is to be able to translate your previous experiences into how it will help you do the type of work expected of you at DOT.

[TransferHopeful17]

First, thanks for making yourself available like this--much appreciated.

How much of a handicap would it be to have fed internship experience only in a more "specialized" area if applying broadly to various fed agencies/components/divisions? If one is primarily interested in X field, but is very open to other areas of the law, will interning in a particular area (envtl/anti-trust/civ rights) for consecutive summers necessarily narrow the list of departments and components within those departments that would realistically consider the applicant? My hope is that kind of substantive experience at a fed level would transfer well.

[Anonymous User]

3L here. It does transfer well. I spent two summers at an agency is a specialized area. One summer in enforcement and one summer in general counsel. The skills I learned transfer to basically all civilian agencies, and I demonstrated that in my cover letters and subsequent interviews. I got interviews at multiple agencies, such as DOT, DHS, HUD, and more.

I also was frank, and when asked, "You seem to have a lot of experience in (specialized area), so why the interest in us," I replied along the lines of: (1) I want to work for the feds because I believe in government and believe it works best when the best people work in it and care about it, which is why I applied to you; (2) my skills obtained are transferable to the varied practice at your agency; and (3) I got a summer position in (specialized area) and used it to my advantage to get a completely different summer experience in the same general field.

[Anonymous User]

First, thanks for making yourself available like this--much appreciated.

How much of a handicap would it be to have fed internship experience only in a more "specialized" area if applying broadly to various fed agencies/components/divisions? If one is primarily interested in X field, but is very open to other areas of the law, will interning in a particular area (envtl/anti-trust/civ rights) for consecutive summers necessarily narrow the list of departments and components within those departments that would realistically consider the applicant? My hope is that kind of substantive experience at a fed level would transfer well.

Specialized experience is only a factor in job applications when you have enough experience to be a go-to person on that area of law. That experience takes at least a few years to obtain, so two 10-week summer internships won't "typecast" you from that standpoint. If you are only interested in pursuing a specific type of law, that may raise a concern that you'll jump ship as soon as a position in your preferred area opens up, but an explanation like the previous poster is usually credited.

At the entry-level stage, it's expected that you have only developed process-driven skills (like how to dig into new statutory areas, research questions, synthesize caselaw, handle yourself in meetings, talk to non-counsel personnel, etc.), so that's what DOT mostly looks for. Beyond that, some experience or interest in the substantive legal areas you might see at DOT can be a plus, but a lack of such experience is not a minus.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to help us. Any idea when final decisions will be made and offers will be extended?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to help us. Any idea when final decisions will be made and offers will be extended?

I won't have any direct insight at this point in the process now that second round interviews are over, but the tentative schedule for extension of offers is the week of Thanksgiving. They are generally good about sticking to that schedule.

[Legallylost]

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to help us. Any idea when final decisions will be made and offers will be extended?

I won't have any direct insight at this point in the process now that second round interviews are over, but the tentative schedule for extension of offers is the week of Thanksgiving. They are generally good about sticking to that schedule.

Anyone hear anything yet?

[Anonymous User]

Nothing yet. Any updates from the recruiting attorney?

[Anonymous User]

Based on the other thread for Honors Programs, it looks like at least 1 person has received an offer. Yesterday, by phone. Anyone else?

[Anonymous User]

I accepted an offer with DOT last week. Thank you so much for your invaluable insight into the process. I look forward to working with you.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received a rejection?