How I left biglaw (part I) Forum

[codeandcodes]

Hi TLS,

For those of you following along, you know that I came from a v5 law firm and eventually left (in less than a year). A popular question (maybe among my friends from school and other biglaw attorneys) was how I did it. Here's an article on http://www.biglawrefuge.com telling my story. Hope that it will help/inspire/encourage someone out there.

http://www.biglawrefuge.com/articles/3- ... law-part-i

[swampman]

Oh, you have a website?

[codeandcodes]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

[seespotrun]

A popular question?

How did you manage to walk off of the hot coals?

You suck, OP

[bearsfan23]

Thanks for posting that codesandcodes. You're website looks awesome btw, and I can see it being tremendously helpful for law students once there's more data.

I'm curious how "typical" you found your experience as an associate to be? I mean I just finished a BigLaw SA and I couldn't imagine working until 1:30AM as an SA.

Do you think it was a firm or being a corporate attorney issue, or do you have the sense this is just how demanding Biglaw is, regardless of where you work?

[wiz]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

Your site is awesome, and I've really enjoyed your articles on leaving biglaw and a day in the life of a biglaw attorney. I don't think you've been spammy at all. Please keep writing articles, adding features, posting, and sharing on tls.

Basically everything you've posted is useful and worth the bump, so you shouldn't feel self-conscious about promoting the site to get the word out there. As you said, it is very beneficial to all job seekers. I would be happy to bump as well (even for less meaningful things like soliciting new users or feedback) if you feel you're doing too much self-promoting since I think it's such a great cause.

[seespotrun]

OP, your site could be helpful, but it's far from interesting. Whose alt are you?

[chuckbass]

OP, your site could be helpful, but it's far from interesting. Whose alt are you?

What's your problem bro? If you're not interested, leave the dude alone.

[WestWingWatcher]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

Your site is awesome, and I've really enjoyed your articles on leaving biglaw and a day in the life of a biglaw attorney. I don't think you've been spammy at all. Please keep writing articles, adding features, posting, and sharing on tls.

Basically everything you've posted is useful and worth the bump, so you shouldn't feel self-conscious about promoting the site to get the word out there. As you said, it is very beneficial to all job seekers out there. I would be happy to bump as well (even for less meaningful things like soliciting new users or feedback) if you feel you're doing too much self-promoting since I think it's such a great cause.

I second this. I think once you hit a critical mass of active users it will be extremely helpful. My only grievance is that I wish you had started it a year or so earlier, so there was a bit more information to take advantage of as I go through OCI.

[J90]

Which market did you work in, and was it all capital markets work?

Was the culture at your firm also a mismatch, or was it just firm life in general?

Thank you!

[seespotrun]

OP, your site could be helpful, but it's far from interesting. Whose alt are you?

What's your problem bro? If you're not interested, leave the dude alone.

Check back in 4 years, scotti

[chuckbass]

OP, your site could be helpful, but it's far from interesting. Whose alt are you?

What's your problem bro? If you're not interested, leave the dude alone.

Check back in 4 years, scotti

Idgi

[seespotrun]

It's almost as if my post anticipated that

[codeandcodes]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

Your site is awesome, and I've really enjoyed your articles on leaving biglaw and a day in the life of a biglaw attorney. I don't think you've been spammy at all. Please keep writing articles, adding features, posting, and sharing on tls.

Basically everything you've posted is useful and worth the bump, so you shouldn't feel self-conscious about promoting the site to get the word out there. As you said, it is very beneficial to all job seekers. I would be happy to bump as well (even for less meaningful things like soliciting new users or feedback) if you feel you're doing too much self-promoting since I think it's such a great cause.

Thanks so much for your support and feedback. I'm going to continue making the site better by adding relevant content and adding new features and meaningful statistics. If there is something that is missing that you would like to see, by all means feel free to message me. I'm just an ordinary guy doing this in my free time. I eventually will run out of things to say, but hopefully by then the website will be mainly community supported, much like TLS is today. Thanks also for the offer to bump.

[codeandcodes]

OP, your site could be helpful, but it's far from interesting. Whose alt are you?

I am no one's alt. One reason I've posted everything on biglawrefuge using my normal handle is because I believe in law firm and law school transparency. I don't mind if you know I was rejected at law firm X, my class rank, or my opinions about certain law firms. If there is something you feel that would make the site more useful to you, please let me know. You have a direct line to the source (e.g. in my other thread, users thought it would be useful for anonymous job postings to give a school range, which I added in a day). Best of luck in OCI or otherwise!

[codeandcodes]

Thanks for posting that codesandcodes. You're website looks awesome btw, and I can see it being tremendously helpful for law students once there's more data.

I'm curious how "typical" you found your experience as an associate to be? I mean I just finished a BigLaw SA and I couldn't imagine working until 1:30AM as an SA.

Do you think it was a firm or being a corporate attorney issue, or do you have the sense this is just how demanding Biglaw is, regardless of where you work?

Typical is a relative matter. For my firm and office in particular, very typical. There was an associate who easily outworked me. She had a rollout pad under her desk which I know for a fact she used on almost a weekly basis. Keep in mind that biglaw summer associates had a very different mentality during 2010. Some law firms straight out told their SA classes that only X of them would get jobs at the end of the summer. While my firm wasn't one of them, I really feared not getting that full time offer. 3L OCI was almost non-existent, and combined with a no-offer, could easily dissuade another law firm from taking a chance on you for a full-time offer.

M&A is also very feast or famine. As other users have noted, there are times when there is nothing to do (the waiting is horrible though). A lot of times, I would be in the office waiting for my partner to get comments to me or a second draft. It often wouldn't come until after midnight, at which point I would have to turn the document.

Finally, another huge factor is your partner. Certain partners are notorious for office shenanigans to make their associates' lives harder. Others are straight shooters. Mine was definitely the latter; he was always swamped and I genuinely think there was never any malicious intent. However, the inescapable nature of being in a client-obsessed service industry spares none.

[seespotrun]

What are you doing now besides websiting?

[codeandcodes]

Which market did you work in, and was it all capital markets work?

Was the culture at your firm also a mismatch, or was it just firm life in general?

Thank you!

M&A only. I never did any capital markets work. There was definitely a cultural mismatch, although that's a bit of a misstatement. For 90% of the associates who went to my firm, there was a cultural mismatch (this was one partner's response to a colleagues frank discussion with her of the high turnover). Also, during my first year when I gathered with my friends at other biglaw firms in the area and compared war stories, mine were always the worst. This probably contributed in large part to the career path I ended up with, but I don't regret it.

[codeandcodes]

What are you doing now besides websiting?

I'm full-time employed as a software engineer. Everything I've done on biglawrefuge has been on nights and weekends only, but I'm excited by the fact that people are using the website (over 500!) and finding it useful. It's something I'm passionate about (as you can most likely tell), but I also am not staking my identity or self-worth on its success or failure. I plan to constantly better the website, either through features or improved content, as it's a platform for my own learning as well.

[swampman]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

Just giving you a hard time. It's a solid website, no shame in some hustle.

[Johann]

Oh, you have a website?

Thanks for you feedback. I obviously don't want to be spammy, so I'll reserve my threads and bumps for only those times in which I have something meaningful to share (like a new feature for biglawrefuge) or a new article that I write.

If you don't feel it's useful or not worth the bump let me know. I just ask for patience as I try to get the word out about biglawrefuge. It's obviously very grassroots (ie just me) but I think the service is beneficial to all job seekers out there. If you or anyone else agrees let me know. The support means a lot.

-codeandcodes

Your site is awesome, and I've really enjoyed your articles on leaving biglaw and a day in the life of a biglaw attorney. I don't think you've been spammy at all. Please keep writing articles, adding features, posting, and sharing on tls.

Basically everything you've posted is useful and worth the bump, so you shouldn't feel self-conscious about promoting the site to get the word out there. As you said, it is very beneficial to all job seekers. I would be happy to bump as well (even for less meaningful things like soliciting new users or feedback) if you feel you're doing too much self-promoting since I think it's such a great cause.

yeah this.

[aliens]

I really like your articles- they ring so true for me. Except I'm not at biglaw- I'm at a small firm (15 attorneys). My experiences are nearly identical to your (the work load, hours, face time, what it means to be on a deal or not on a deal). Except I'm paid much, much less than a biglaw associate. Because our opposing counsel in deals is typically biglaw firms, I am expected to pull all nighters, turn docs quickly, late conference calls, etc. When you combine that with the low pay, I think it's worse than biglaw.

I know you're website is focused on biglaw, but maybe you should consider including a small law component to it. Afterall, most attorneys coming out of law school aren't going to biglaw. I think that could be really helpful and would let more people input their stats.

[First Offense]

Hate that formatting. Also something about the color scheme makes me not want to read it.

If you're going to host more articles, I'd look into switching that up.

[codeandcodes]

I really like your articles- they ring so true for me. Except I'm not at biglaw- I'm at a small firm (15 attorneys). My experiences are nearly identical to your (the work load, hours, face time, what it means to be on a deal or not on a deal). Except I'm paid much, much less than a biglaw associate. Because our opposing counsel in deals is typically biglaw firms, I am expected to pull all nighters, turn docs quickly, late conference calls, etc. When you combine that with the low pay, I think it's worse than biglaw.

I know you're website is focused on biglaw, but maybe you should consider including a small law component to it. Afterall, most attorneys coming out of law school aren't going to biglaw. I think that could be really helpful and would let more people input their stats.

Thanks aliens! I'm experimenting with rolling out a feature that will let users post up articles as well (which can be upvoted, commented on, etc). If you'd like to provide a counterpoint, let me know and you can be a part of this pilot.

[codeandcodes]

Hate that formatting. Also something about the color scheme makes me not want to read it.

If you're going to host more articles, I'd look into switching that up.

I'll be writing part II soon. I'll try to pick something a little more neutral w/r/t look and feel.