Nyc lit: Paul Weiss or Sullcrom Forum

[Anonymous User]

(Same anon)

Maybe I do, but I understand that is brutal. But it is about what I expected. I wasn't trying to say one way or the other about hours, just reporting what I heard.

[Desert Fox]

[N.P.H.]

I don't believe that there are meaningful differences between the hours worked at S&C v. PW. Even if S&C's average hours billed is higher I don't think choosing a firm based on marginal differences in averages is the way to go here. The fact is both firms will have similar levels of expectation and you'll have put in the necessary hours whether you like it or not.

So just choose between the two firms for other tangible reasons. Don't choose PW under the allusions that you'll work less there.

No one's saying that you should pick PW because you'd work less hours there.

We're saying that you shouldn't rule out PW because rpuppy says you work a lot there.

[Anonymous User]

OP here

So in summary PW?

[cookiejar1]

OP here

So in summary PW?

so its too late for you to not do gen commercial lit right

[Anonymous User]

What is the alternative? A boutique in not nyc?

[dixiecupdrinking]

Paul Weiss seems a bit more pleasant and probably also better for what you want to do. The main draw to S&C seems to be 10ish spots in the Vault rankings. Anything else? I agree with the general sentiment that you can't go too wrong (or, maybe, too right, as ppl have pointed out) but I would probably lean PW if i were in your shoes.

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

What else should I gun for, df? I don't have like Susman credentials, and I have either been dinged or cbed (and/or been comparatively less impressed (except possibly with the exception of weil, but their layoff deal is really concerning)(also not counting upcoming skadden cb)) by every other ~v20/classic nyc firm, and have cbed with a few willkie-style "lifestyle" firms and havent really been able to buy the schtick.

Like I said, I exclusively want nyc right now, and I'm shocked to have stuff like pw be an option, so I don't know what else should be on the table.

[bruinfan10]

Friends don't let friends do general litigation.

lol

This comment = paul weiss?

I'd rather go to auschwitz than do nyc lit. But I don't know the market well enough. But I do know I would not work in general litigation.

Good point. I'm sure working IP Lit in DC is much better in terms of hours/exit options

You're trying to be cleverly sarcastic, but I think that IP Lit in DC does have better hours, on average, than general commercial lit in NYC. And no one said anything about exit options.

So the only thing that matters to you in terms of a law firm is hours worked? You must be a K-JD. I'd rather work 100 hours a week with people I like and at a job then will provide opportunities for my career then 60 hours a weeks with people who suck and a job with no exit options

Then again, you probably think DF's Holocaust joke was witty and clever.

The belligerent ignorance in this post is objectively more offensive than DF's reference.

[jbagelboy]

What else should I gun for, df? I don't have like Susman credentials, and I have either been dinged or cbed (and/or been comparatively less impressed (except possibly with the exception of weil, but their layoff deal is really concerning)(also not counting upcoming skadden cb)) by every other ~v20/classic nyc firm, and have cbed with a few willkie-style "lifestyle" firms and havent really been able to buy the schtick.

Like I said, I exclusively want nyc right now, and I'm shocked to have stuff like pw be an option, so I don't know what else should be on the table.

Don't get so discouraged right now. Remember that this is TLS. For what they do, Paul Weiss is one of the best. Try to be excited about your options and have a fun summer. Make le bernadin your bitch. Then try to clerk out of state and get a job in another market, or risk being a junior lit associate in new york.

[Desert Fox]

[Anonymous User]

I wasn't suggesting you should be looking at more, because you have two good options. I just wondered if you were doing the classic TLS-Employment forum thing where you get two offers and start a thread. And then two weeks later you get another firm you want more than both, making the whole the thing a huge waste of time. It happens all the time.

I tend to believe that lit botiques are better than biglaw for shittigators. But I don't know much about hiring at botiques. If you aren't competitive, you aren't competitive.

I think one huge strike against Sulcrom is that they offer essentially every weirdo, asshole, or douchbage who walks into their office with good grades from a T14. Since other firms don't do that, I gotta imagine that firm is filled with the worst of the worst associates.

So if we are a weirdo with good grades from a T14 should SullCrom be near the top of our list?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks sealocust. As I respect your opinion as much as anyone's here: there is no question paul weiss is the answer? Would skadden or say a weil be competitive for what I want, or is it pw all day?

Skadden and S&C will offer essentially identical opportunities/exit options. They're among the best for NYC big law litigation. But ultimately, I'd probably go with Paul Weiss if I knew for sure I wanted litigation.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[Anonymous User]

Don't get so discouraged right now. Remember that this is TLS. For what they do, Paul Weiss is one of the best. Try to be excited about your options and have a fun summer. Make le bernadin your bitch. Then try to clerk out of state and get a job in another market, or risk being a junior lit associate in new york.

Oh I am in no way discouraged, ecstatic would be a far better way to put it

[jbagelboy]

Don't get so discouraged right now. Remember that this is TLS. For what they do, Paul Weiss is one of the best. Try to be excited about your options and have a fun summer. Make le bernadin your bitch. Then try to clerk out of state and get a job in another market, or risk being a junior lit associate in new york.

Oh I am in no way discouraged, ecstatic would be a far better way to put it

Okay, good.

This site has a way of making one's accomplishments feel diminished sometimes. Like an exaggerated version of law school. I agree with DF and rpupkin that working as a litigator for a premier NY law firm has significant drawbacks and it's a conscious choice that comes with consequences, but getting a job at PW or S&C is still an achievement.

[parkslope]

I wasn't suggesting you should be looking at more, because you have two good options. I just wondered if you were doing the classic TLS-Employment forum thing where you get two offers and start a thread. And then two weeks later you get another firm you want more than both, making the whole the thing a huge waste of time. It happens all the time.

I tend to believe that lit botiques are better than biglaw for shittigators. But I don't know much about hiring at botiques. If you aren't competitive, you aren't competitive.

I think one huge strike against Sulcrom is that they offer essentially every weirdo, asshole, or douchbage who walks into their office with good grades from a T14. Since other firms don't do that, I gotta imagine that firm is filled with the worst of the worst associates.

I don't think that's the case, based on my experience. Each firm has its own idiosyncratic hiring practices that end up creating slightly different firm cultures. Why would a 3.9 kid from UVA automatically be worse than some lazy 3.3 bro from UVA? I'm not sure there's a correlation between awfulness and grades. Now, S&C is probably less social than the most frat-tastic of firms, but not everyone wants to rage on a Wednesday night.

[smaug]

It's absolutely true in terms of the people I know going there. It's a pretty good competition between PW and S&C for who gets more universally loathed students. (But, PW seems to attract some really awesome people as well, whereas S&C ... well ...)

[Anonymous User]

It's absolutely true in terms of the people I know going there. It's a pretty good competition between PW and S&C for who gets more universally loathed students. (But, PW seems to attract some really awesome people as well, whereas S&C ... well ...)

It's hard to tell if there's an actual difference between the type of kids that end up at S&C vs firms like Simpson or Skadden though. At my school, it felt pretty random and all over the place (some I liked, some I disliked) when it came to the people at these places so it was difficult to form any generalization.

[jbagelboy]

It's absolutely true in terms of the people I know going there. It's a pretty good competition between PW and S&C for who gets more universally loathed students. (But, PW seems to attract some really awesome people as well, whereas S&C ... well ...)

you really, really hate sullcrom don't you.

your year had some real doozies but I have a couple friends who spent this summer there who are pretty awesome so I try to withhold judgment.

[smaug]

It's absolutely true in terms of the people I know going there. It's a pretty good competition between PW and S&C for who gets more universally loathed students. (But, PW seems to attract some really awesome people as well, whereas S&C ... well ...)

you really, really hate sullcrom don't you.

your year had some real doozies but I have a couple friends who spent this summer there who are pretty awesome so I try to withhold judgment.

Maybe it's just a bad coincidence but yeah, it's something that was real my year.

I don't judge people for taking the offer—it's a great firm. I just would be terrified of my coworkers there.

[lawhopeful10]

So the only thing that matters to you in terms of a law firm is hours worked? You must be a K-JD. I'd rather work 100 hours a week with people I like and at a job then will provide opportunities for my career then 60 hours a weeks with people who suck and a job with no exit options

Then again, you probably think DF's Holocaust joke was witty and clever.

In order:

1. No, I don't think that "hours worked" is the only thing that matters. I neither said nor implied that.

2. I'm not K-JD. I worked for several years before law school, and I'm now a mid-level litigation associate.

3. I bet you haven't worked as a lawyer at a big firm. If you had, you would not have typed your "I'd rather work 100 hours a week" line.

4. Relatedly, I suspect you're rather clueless about the hypothetical "exit options" you reference (which, again, no one ITT was discussing).

5. DF didn't make a "Holocaust joke"; he used a cultural reference to make a point. If I write that I'd rather have a root canal than defend a deposition, I am not making a "root canal" joke.

Underrated response. Explaining humor at the end as well. Pure gold.

[Desert Fox]

[rpupkin]

Now that's a Holocaust joke, bearsfan23. I hope you're taking notes.