Investment Banking Forum

[Anonymous User]

Most users on TLS believe JDs are not versatile, which I also believe. But there are currently Banks that specifically look for JD/MBA or JD for their investment banking associate internship/programs. Can anyone think of why? and has anyone on here pursued this route after law school?

[minnbills]

Most users on TLS believe JDs are not versatile, which I also believe. But there are currently Banks that specifically look for JD/MBA or JD for their investment banking associate internship/programs. Can anyone think of why? and has anyone on here pursued this route after law school?

Law students are workaholics. Also, M&A lends itself to investment banking.

[thesealocust]

Only a small number of employers do this, they only hire from a small number of schools, and they only talk a small number of students. Generally speaking those who wind up on that path could have gotten there quicker and more cheaply via another route, such as business school or applying to positions without any graduate schooling at all.

So yes, you can jump through hoops from some schools and land a consulting or banking gig straight out of law school, but that highlights the broad hiring criteria of those industries significantly more than it highlights the flexibility of the law degree.

The supposed flexibility of the law degree is really just a cause and effect problem. People with law degrees often wind up doing all kinds of interesting non-legal work, but you know, so do people without law degrees. If you dig into the data and the hiring decisions and the life paths, you very rarely see the law degree adding flexibility when you look across the population of students graduating. Here and there? Sure. For most of the ~50,000 people trying to enroll every year? No way.

[hotwetman21]

Only a small number of employers do this, they only hire from a small number of schools, and they only talk a small number of students. Generally speaking those who wind up on that path could have gotten there quicker and more cheaply via another route, such as business school or applying to positions without any graduate schooling at all.

So yes, you can jump through hoops from some schools and land a consulting or banking gig straight out of law school, but that highlights the broad hiring criteria of those industries significantly more than it highlights the flexibility of the law degree.

The supposed flexibility of the law degree is really just a cause and effect problem. People with law degrees often wind up doing all kinds of interesting non-legal work, but you know, so do people without law degrees. If you dig into the data and the hiring decisions and the life paths, you very rarely see the law degree adding flexibility when you look across the population of students graduating. Here and there? Sure. For most of the ~50,000 people trying to enroll every year? No way.

Small number of schools? as in t-14?

[Anonymous User]

I'm at H and this year, we have 3 banks and 2 consulting firms coming to campus for OCI. Some people will get other offers from networking and such, but it's really difficult to get into an associate program when that firm doesn't come to your campus. Most of the people who do get an offer either did consulting or banking before law school or have a strong economics/finance background (H surprisingly has a lot of people with these backgrounds).

I would say the possibility of a good IBD/MBB consulting job with only a JD ends at the T6 and maybe T3. There are some other banking jobs that you can get out of law school, like compliance/back office stuff, that you can get from lower ranked schools.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, the couple of summer internships I see posted by the banks essentially mean that you're out of luck to practice biglaw, since it will replace the 2L SA and you will continue as an investment banking associate (if you get and offer).

[PMan99]

Most users on TLS believe JDs are not versatile, which I also believe. But there are currently Banks that specifically look for JD/MBA or JD for their investment banking associate internship/programs. Can anyone think of why? and has anyone on here pursued this route after law school?

Because talent is talent and the ability to put in hours is the ability to put in hours. And if you're already visiting H to recruit at HBS, dropping an interviewer in for a couple days at HLS doesn't cost much at all. The difference is banks, consulting firms, etc. look at your resume in a very different light from law firms so to them the pool of viable "talent" is much smaller than your average V100, even at HLS.

[masque du pantsu]

Here's another way to look at it: in labor economics theory there's the human capital function of education and the signaling function. Human capital impact of the JD is probably rather limited and not very versatile (i.e., that you come out of law school with a certain set of specific skills that you didn't have when you went in). However, the theory is that the fact that a candidate got good grades from a top law school (and even got into that law school in the first place) sends an imperfect signal about that person's general smarts and ability to analyze a problem, formulate a coherent solution and explain it to others, etc.

Obviously it's an imperfect signal to say the least (lots of smart people can't get into Harvard, people in law school who don't get good grades are plenty smart, etc.) and query whether it even makes sense, the idea is that these observable factors are proxies for unobservable ones, and it looks like that's how IBs, consultancies, etc., view the JD. The fact that (i) they only recruit at certain schools and (ii) at those schools, they probably only take the candidates with the best qualifications suggests to me that's what they're doing.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

[DoveBodyWash]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

lol one of my friends/classmates is going to blackstone/KKR/Apollo directly from law school after summering with V10...but he had prior IB experience

[UMich11]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

http://www.carlyle.com/about-carlyle/te ... -v-plouffe --> is one good enough for you or do you want more?

edit:

also:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-stiepleman/9/bb7/708 or http://www.tpgspecialtylending.com/dstiepleman;

https://uk.linkedin.com/pub/aj-kaneko/0/189/80b

or for VC: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhornik

[DJ JD]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

http://www.carlyle.com/about-carlyle/te ... -v-plouffe --> is one good enough for you or do you want more?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/ ... 68x385.jpg

[Anonymous User]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

http://www.carlyle.com/about-carlyle/te ... -v-plouffe --> is one good enough for you or do you want more?

Sure. I stand corrected. Good luck on your career path.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

http://www.carlyle.com/about-carlyle/te ... -v-plouffe --> is one good enough for you or do you want more?

Sure. I stand corrected. Good luck on your career path.

You're the lawyer, soon to be lawyer, or lawyer wannabe, so i would be cautious about talking out of one's ass.

[Anonymous User]

If you have a Background in IB it could help. I was at a boutique IB firm doing M&A, mostly with PEGs but also some VC work. I landed interviews with a few IB firms last summer during 2L OCI and i go to a T25 school, no finance/business education. I'm looking at consulting right now but not certain if i want to go down that route - actually more interested in joining a PEG. Currently finishing a Big Law SA and might want to work at a firm for 1-2 years then jump over to one of the PEG clients on the business side, or else go back into IB. If not something now you could always try to make the jump later on, just work on building your Rolodex early.

Going off on a tangent here, but this is impossible. There is 0% chance of moving from biglaw directly to a (reputable) PE firm except in a legal capacity. Don't take my word for it; go scour around for one linkedin profile that suggests otherwise. I'd be happy to be disproved.

http://www.carlyle.com/about-carlyle/te ... -v-plouffe --> is one good enough for you or do you want more?

edit:

also:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-stiepleman/9/bb7/708 or http://www.tpgspecialtylending.com/dstiepleman;

https://uk.linkedin.com/pub/aj-kaneko/0/189/80b

or for VC: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhornik

Not sure why you felt the need to pile it on and edit your post after I conceded that Mr. Plouffe was a perfectly fine example that it's in fact theoretically possible to move straight from biglaw -> PE (FO). But then you come back with 1) someone who moved over in a legal capacity and is even now only in a COO role (not that there's anything wrong with that, but read: does not generate revenue), 2) someone who literally WENT BACK TO BUSINESS SCHOOL TO TRANSITION OUT OF THE LAW, and 3) someone who got into a part of the industry that has a completely different hiring focus than traditional PE.

If these are your exhibits 2,3 and 4, I think you should have quit while you were ahead?

[thesealocust]

Getting a business job at a PE firm straight from law school or a biglaw gig is basically impossible. Of course this is TLS though, so if you say zero chance the thread will get derailed for a few pages as edge cases get argued.

[lawlorbust]

...

[jingosaur]

Getting a business job at a PE firm straight from law school or a biglaw gig is basically impossible. Of course this is TLS though, so if you say zero chance the thread will get derailed for a few pages as edge cases get argued.

What are you talking about? At least 4 people who went to top 6 schools did it before 2008.

[UMich11]

Getting a business job at a PE firm straight from law school or a biglaw gig is basically impossible. Of course this is TLS though, so if you say zero chance the thread will get derailed for a few pages as edge cases get argued.

it is completely possible, but some schmuck who couldn't get Big-law, unless he has the background to support it, won't be able to land a PE job with great ease. There are plenty of people in PE who went straight from LS to PE or consulting (both those w/ and w/o an MBA), likely less who went from a Law Firm to PE - it's hard to say if this is because Big Law Associates aren't attractive to PE or if PE isn't attractive to Big Law Associates. Probably a little of both - it's very unlikely for a lit associate to move over to PE. At the same time, if a lit associate has an MBA, or prior to LS worked in finance, the case for switching is easier to make. Also, PE isn't as fickle as big law, they don't really care much for if you are going to stay or why PE or any of that BS that big law "cares" about. The reason you go to PE is to make money, and lots of it.

maybe the perception that it is "impossible" is due to self-selection and the fact is that not many lawyers are interested in moving to PE. If a young associate is able to network (i know, buzz word is dead) and simply provide value to a PE client, it's possible they could be poached for a legal or non-legal job if your showing actual knowledge of business rather than purely legal. Happens more often than you'd imagine. Source - talking to head hunters who approached me prior to and during ls about IB, PEG, and VC opportunities.

[thesealocust]

Getting a business job at a PE firm straight from law school or a biglaw gig is basically impossible. Of course this is TLS though, so if you say zero chance the thread will get derailed for a few pages as edge cases get argued.

it is completely possible, but some schmuck who couldn't get Big-law, unless he has the background to support it, won't be able to land a PE job with great ease. There are plenty of people in PE who went straight from LS to PE or consulting (both those w/ and w/o an MBA), likely less who went from a Law Firm to PE - it's hard to say if this is because Big Law Associates aren't attractive to PE or if PE isn't attractive to Big Law Associates. Probably a little of both - it's very unlikely for a lit associate to move over to PE. At the same time, if a lit associate has an MBA, or prior to LS worked in finance, the case for switching is easier to make. Also, PE isn't as fickle as big law, they don't really care much for if you are going to stay or why PE or any of that BS that big law "cares" about. The reason you go to PE is to make money, and lots of it.

maybe the perception that it is "impossible" is due to self-selection and the fact is that not many lawyers are interested in moving to PE. If a young associate is able to network (i know, buzz word is dead) and simply provide value to a PE client, it's possible they could be poached for a legal or non-legal job if your showing actual knowledge of business rather than purely legal. Happens more often than you'd imagine. Source - talking to head hunters who approached me prior to and during ls about IB, PEG, and VC opportunities.

[Anonymous User]

At an HLS admitted students weekend, someone asked a professor who is a big deal in the VC space the best way to get into VC with a law degree and he told us the only way is to start your own company, get funded, and then try to get a job at the VC that funded you after you exit from your startup. Or start your own fund.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at H and this year, we have 3 banks and 2 consulting firms coming to campus for OCI. Some people will get other offers from networking and such, but it's really difficult to get into an associate program when that firm doesn't come to your campus. Most of the people who do get an offer either did consulting or banking before law school or have a strong economics/finance background (H surprisingly has a lot of people with these backgrounds).

I would say the possibility of a good IBD/MBB consulting job with only a JD ends at the T6 and maybe T3. There are some other banking jobs that you can get out of law school, like compliance/back office stuff, that you can get from lower ranked schools.

FWIW essentially the same group of players comes to EIP and other recruiting events at CLS. And they mostly cater to the many students who were in consulting or banking before law school. But I haven't heard of this widely outside of a core group of schools.

[lawlorbust]

...

[Anonymous User]

OP here, did not mean for this thread to turn into a bloodbath, but I'm not surprised that it did. Anyway, the specfic bank is Credit Suisse, so only T6 students have a shot at these IB associate internships?