Negotiate to Cover Additional SA Living Expenses? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever tried to negotiate with a firm to cover additional summer associate living expenses?

Let's say I have an offer from firm X in office Y (non-NYC/DC). Office Y is far from my apartment, which means I will probably have to sublet a second apartment for the summer. Most other firms have offices in location Z (a much more popular region), which is within walking distance of my apartment. However, I would prefer to work for firm X in office Y. Firm X has specifically mentioned that it is difficult for them to get summers to come to office Y because of the location. Is it insane to ask for firm X to cover my additional living expenses if I end up with multiple offers? Otherwise, I would be losing a chunk ($4k-5k) of my summer salary.

Edit: I am a fairly competitive candidate in terms of my grades and my school's rank. However, I am also k-jd, and therefore I do not have much relevant WE.

[silenttimer]

Please don't do this.

[Anonymous User]

Please don't do this.

OP: That's what I figured. Just thought I'd ask.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever tried to negotiate with a firm to cover additional summer associate living expenses?

Let's say I have an offer from firm X in office Y (non-NYC/DC). Office Y is far from my apartment, which means I will probably have to sublet a second apartment for the summer. Most other firms have offices in location Z (a much more popular region), which is within walking distance of my apartment. However, I would prefer to work for firm X in office Y. Firm X has specifically mentioned that it is difficult for them to get summers to come to office Y because of the location. Is it insane to ask for firm X to cover my additional living expenses if I end up with multiple offers? Otherwise, I would be losing a chunk ($4k-5k) of my summer salary.

Edit: I am a fairly competitive candidate in terms of my grades and my school's rank. However, I am also k-jd, and therefore I do not have much relevant WE.

to be honest this is the norm in other industries. At least when it comes to negotiating benefits and salary. I worked in IB and finance before school and negotiated starting salary and raises/bonuses before starting and while employed. I was a bit surprised to see recent grads not doing it and i'm sure with HR there may be some wiggle on things like benefits, stipened, etc once you get the offer.

[bearsfan23]

Has anyone ever tried to negotiate with a firm to cover additional summer associate living expenses?

Let's say I have an offer from firm X in office Y (non-NYC/DC). Office Y is far from my apartment, which means I will probably have to sublet a second apartment for the summer. Most other firms have offices in location Z (a much more popular region), which is within walking distance of my apartment. However, I would prefer to work for firm X in office Y. Firm X has specifically mentioned that it is difficult for them to get summers to come to office Y because of the location. Is it insane to ask for firm X to cover my additional living expenses if I end up with multiple offers? Otherwise, I would be losing a chunk ($4k-5k) of my summer salary.

Edit: I am a fairly competitive candidate in terms of my grades and my school's rank. However, I am also k-jd, and therefore I do not have much relevant WE.

to be honest this is the norm in other industries. At least when it comes to negotiating benefits and salary. I worked in IB and finance before school and negotiated starting salary and raises/bonuses before starting and while employed. I was a bit surprised to see recent grads not doing it and i'm sure with HR there may be some wiggle on things like benefits, stipened, etc once you get the offer.

Is this a serious post? Being a SA is not the same thing as being hired as a full-time associate.

[trebekismyhero]

Has anyone ever tried to negotiate with a firm to cover additional summer associate living expenses?

Let's say I have an offer from firm X in office Y (non-NYC/DC). Office Y is far from my apartment, which means I will probably have to sublet a second apartment for the summer. Most other firms have offices in location Z (a much more popular region), which is within walking distance of my apartment. However, I would prefer to work for firm X in office Y. Firm X has specifically mentioned that it is difficult for them to get summers to come to office Y because of the location. Is it insane to ask for firm X to cover my additional living expenses if I end up with multiple offers? Otherwise, I would be losing a chunk ($4k-5k) of my summer salary.

Edit: I am a fairly competitive candidate in terms of my grades and my school's rank. However, I am also k-jd, and therefore I do not have much relevant WE.

to be honest this is the norm in other industries. At least when it comes to negotiating benefits and salary. I worked in IB and finance before school and negotiated starting salary and raises/bonuses before starting and while employed. I was a bit surprised to see recent grads not doing it and i'm sure with HR there may be some wiggle on things like benefits, stipened, etc once you get the offer.

Is this a serious post? Being a SA is not the same thing as being hired as a full-time associate.

Yeah, law firms are not the same as IB and finance. Some law firms give MBAs a year of credit so they start as 2nd year associates, but that is it as far as negotiating salary. No firm would do that for a SA since you don't make them any money as a SA. Now most good firms pay for bar expenses and stipends for that period before you start full time. But that isn't really up for negotiation either.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever tried to negotiate with a firm to cover additional summer associate living expenses?

Let's say I have an offer from firm X in office Y (non-NYC/DC). Office Y is far from my apartment, which means I will probably have to sublet a second apartment for the summer. Most other firms have offices in location Z (a much more popular region), which is within walking distance of my apartment. However, I would prefer to work for firm X in office Y. Firm X has specifically mentioned that it is difficult for them to get summers to come to office Y because of the location. Is it insane to ask for firm X to cover my additional living expenses if I end up with multiple offers? Otherwise, I would be losing a chunk ($4k-5k) of my summer salary.

Edit: I am a fairly competitive candidate in terms of my grades and my school's rank. However, I am also k-jd, and therefore I do not have much relevant WE.

to be honest this is the norm in other industries. At least when it comes to negotiating benefits and salary. I worked in IB and finance before school and negotiated starting salary and raises/bonuses before starting and while employed. I was a bit surprised to see recent grads not doing it and i'm sure with HR there may be some wiggle on things like benefits, stipend, etc once you get the offer.

Is this a serious post? Being a SA is not the same thing as being hired as a full-time associate.

i guess i should have been more clear as you couldn't read the part where i said "recent grads", but that's neither here nor there.

[OutoftheWoods]

4-5k of your 30k. thats prob the worth of the fringe benefits you'll get. just be blessed with what you have.

[thesealocust]

Part of the reason you get paid 3k per week as a summer associate is to cover costs like this, and many (if not most) students have to deal with moving and finding temporary summer accommodations every year. Asking for more would make you appear out of touch and entitled - not a good look.

[Anonymous User]

If you have multiple options why not? You are essentially in the driver's seat once you have multiple offers and can go where you want. Just as you negotiate scholarship or any other job offer, why not try it here. I would say make sure you have a fall-back option, but give it a shot. The legal landscape is changing and anything is possible. the risk-averse parties on here which makes up about 99% of them, will roast this post for being idiotic or whatnot. Then again, there's a reason why they aren't getting the benefits you are seeking, they're not asking for it and too scared of being told no. That fact is simple, you get an offer then call HR and ask about this being an option - they'll say no or they'll say yes. HR won't, and if they do it's unprofessional and you wouldn't want to go there anyway, say anything about it to the other attny's or summers. They'll either say no, we'll get back to you, or yes.

[OutoftheWoods]

OP has already said this is his #1 firm. DO NOT jeopardize your number 1 choice for the sake of 4k. yes, it's a lot now, but a pittance compared to your future salary and happiness at your perceived #1 firm. I can understand if it wasn't your top choice, but for some reason you cared about making the extra money, and would rather break even at #2 than lose money at #1.

This isn't law school where if you ask for extra money, they will not know who you are and unable to treat you like hell in school. HR, if rubbed the wrong way through something like this, WILL make it known you were the guy who tried to negotiate when it is a huge no-no for SAs. It will not be a good starting impression and could send you into no-offer land before even starting.

[Anonymous User]

OP: Thank you everyone for your input. It seems like I could really end up rubbing this firm the wrong way by doing something like this, which could jeopardize my chances at a full-time offer with them even if I did successfully negotiate.

It just seems odd to put someone like me (a broke law student) in the position of having to choose between two equal paying jobs (and maybe even equally prestigious jobs) when one would leave me with $4-5k more in take-home pay. As usual, the legal industry makes no sense.

[thesealocust]

It just seems odd to put someone like me (a broke law student) in the position of having to choose between two equal paying jobs (and maybe even equally prestigious jobs) when one would leave me with $4-5k more in take-home pay. As usual, the legal industry makes no sense.

When/if you have actual relocation on the line, most large firms will cover expenses (movers, brokers fees, down payment assistance, advances or stipends, etc.) on top of covering your bar fees and paying for a bar review course.

But summer associate compensation and perks already border on the absurd. The fact that you might want to spend a summer working somewhere other than the place you go to school is an issue that students face in all levels of higher education - generally without $30,000+ worth of summer income to soften the blow. It's a perk to live within commuting distance of a summer employer, not a hardship if you're not.

[Anonymous User]

perceived #1 firm.

just be aware of this. you have absolutely no fucking idea how you will like the firm. for all you know it will suck. this is a great showing of the absurdity of legal recruiting right now: the expectation of picking a firm (with a proverbial gun to one's head) to be a great fit when you have likely not worked at any other law firm. Any other recruiting system (MBA, Ph.D., BA, etc.) gives you the time to test the waters with different employers and actually be able to evaluate themselves. It makes more sense for the industry to shift recruiting focus - cut the summer salary for 1L and 2Ls in half and offer more recruitment options to the top students - more top students getting 1L SAs and thus being able to evaluate more options. Sorry, but those at the bottom of the class are likely screwed anyway.

[Anonymous User]

This isn't law school where if you ask for extra money, they will not know who you are and unable to treat you like hell in school. HR, if rubbed the wrong way through something like this, WILL make it known you were the guy who tried to negotiate when it is a huge no-no for SAs. It will not be a good starting impression and could send you into no-offer land before even starting.

any anecdotal evidence to support this? I am the one who wrote contrary and it's extremely unprofessional for HR to do this. If they do as a matter of culture or policy, it's not a place OP wants to go anyway - misery isn't going to smack you in the face but slowly bubble up until you finally realize it. Law students are enamored by the thought of making 140, 160, 180k right out of school - it's an amazing feeling for the English history major to laugh their way to the bank as their chemical engineering friends make their mere 110k starting salary. That being said, they often aren't looking at job offers with blinders on.

[Anonymous User]

Lock-step salary is a culturally significant part of the profession. Deviation is rare, even with bonuses. You can count on one hand the number of major firms that deviate significantly from lock-step bonuses based on meeting a minimum hour threshold. I attempted to negotiate a small salary bump at my firm after gaining a huge amount of responsibility and contributing to the development of an important client early in my career, and got nowhere. It was a non-starter.

You can criticize the legal industry for its stance on things like this, but that won't make it go away.

[OutoftheWoods]

There is way too much anon abuse in this thread right now. Anyways,

no anecdotal evidence, but when they consider offers, they ask anyone whose interacted with you and that includes HR, so presumably it could come up. A main difference between associates and SAs is that when you get an associate offer, it is in their interest to pay for relocation and bar so you dont have doubts about accepting, and they are putting themselves at risk by having to find some 3L who hasnt worked for them before. at this stage, there are plenty of interchangeable candidates. if OP rejects his offer bc they wont pay, they'll surely find someone better (no offense OP, but there are tons of qualified law students that they can pick from).

also, ditto lockstep commment above me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Any other recruiting system (MBA, Ph.D., BA, etc.) gives you the time to test the waters with different employers and actually be able to evaluate themselves.

Lol no, that's not how PhD recruiting works. Lol at recruiting, actually, and not "please give me a job." (If you're talking about a specific kind of PhD that may be different, but you didn't specify.)