NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

So with Jones Day at 1M, could it even afford the move? I've heard they deflate their PPP by reinvesting much of their revenue towards future endeavors -- more long term oriented.

It's not like law firms have R&D departments. If JD were a big plaintiff-side firm that were investing in cases that could bring in the big bucks I'd believe it, but I don't think that's the case.

JD doesn't report their numbers, so that 1m number is an educated guess. It's also structured different than most peer firms (single partner track, lower parter:assoc ratio etc).


I'm desperately trying to predict what they'll do for obvious reasons.

They also have a weird partner compensation thing. They don't have equity/nonequity. Everyone just gets paid what the compensation committee/managing partner sets. There's no origination credits or anything (at least overtly), and no partner knows what anyone else makes, which is very different from most firms.

So potential for less bitterness about who is bearing the brunt of the raises, because no one knows unless their pay takes an obvious decline next year.

If I remember right, don't they set compensation sometime in the summer anyway? I seem to remember compensation memos going out during the summer.

[androstan]

Anyone have info / speculation about the big patent boutiques?

Once DC goes fully 180, FInnegan will follow. Once Boston goes fully 180, FIsh will follow.

[TLSModBot]

Do ya'll think W&C moves up to $220k?

Not immediately. When firms moved to 160K, W&C went to 165K and stayed for a while - not sure when the next bump up came but it was months later at least. I think they might go 185/190 and then adjust upwards if need be.

W&C has been at $200k for over a year now. But they'd start becoming "below market" by year 3--when like half the summers actually start working. They'd have to move to 220, right? At least to retain the talent they have now

They have no bonuses. They are below market year 2 now
.

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

What the hell kinda defeatist Quisling shit is this

What has Biglaw done to you man

[Anonymous User]

Do ya'll think W&C moves up to $220k?

Not immediately. When firms moved to 160K, W&C went to 165K and stayed for a while - not sure when the next bump up came but it was months later at least. I think they might go 185/190 and then adjust upwards if need be.

W&C has been at $200k for over a year now. But they'd start becoming "below market" by year 3--when like half the summers actually start working. They'd have to move to 220, right? At least to retain the talent they have now

They have no bonuses. They are below market year 2 now
.

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

From what I hear there is no concern of not hitting hours at W&C... since a) there are no hours requirement and b) you're working 3000 hours anyway.

[Big Shrimpin]

it has deflated my spirit and tattered my soul

[splitmuch]

If I remember right, don't they set compensation sometime in the summer anyway? I seem to remember compensation memos going out during the summer.

Lol "we cant announce compensation changes now because for the past 10 years have waited until the summer to announce we haven't changed comp. All these other firms must happen to "set comp" during the second week of June."

[Anonymous User]

If I remember right, don't they set compensation sometime in the summer anyway? I seem to remember compensation memos going out during the summer.

Lol "we cant announce compensation changes now because for the past 10 years have waited until the summer to announce we haven't changed comp. All these other firms must happen to "set comp" during the second week of June."

I mean compensation memos go out to everyone. Black box pay and all, you know. Pretty sure the associates were getting theirs in June when I summered.

[kcdc1]

Anyone have info / speculation about the big patent boutiques?

Once DC goes fully 180, FInnegan will follow. Once Boston goes fully 180, FIsh will follow.

Speculation: the shops that do significant patent prosecution will have trouble matching. Patent pros is commoditized and low-margin at current salary levels, and patent pros does not meaningfully compete with high-end biglaw for talent (more concerned with UG major and WE; less interested in law school prestige and GPA).

On the other hand, Finnegan and Fish et. al. also do a lot of lit, and they do compete with biglaw firms for lit associates. Hard to see firms splitting pay levels between lit and pros. They could raise salaries and just work pros associates harder (i.e., cut hours to keep fees competitive with smaller firms). Or they could decline to match, which could result in losing T14 students to biglaw, but maybe that's not a big deal cuz tech degrees.

[UnicornHunter]

t who is bearing the brunt of the raises, because no one knows unless their pay takes an obvious decline next year.

I would love to know how the different firms handled this. It seems like it would be relatively easy for the lockstep firms (Cleary/Cravath) but a relative nightmare for everyone else.

[splitmuch]

t who is bearing the brunt of the raises, because no one knows unless their pay takes an obvious decline next year.

I would love to know how the different firms handled this. It seems like it would be relatively easy for the lockstep firms (Cleary/Cravath) but a relative nightmare for everyone else.

I mean, isnt partner comp thats not lockstep based on points that represent shares of profit pool? Presumably the raises just added costs, reducing the profit pool. To that extent, the ones who it costs the most are the ones who make the most.

[Big Shrimpin]

t who is bearing the brunt of the raises, because no one knows unless their pay takes an obvious decline next year.

I would love to know how the different firms handled this. It seems like it would be relatively easy for the lockstep firms (Cleary/Cravath) but a relative nightmare for everyone else.

I mean, isnt partner comp thats not lockstep based on points that represent shares of profit pool? Presumably the raises just added costs, reducing the profit pool. To that extent, the ones who it costs the most are the ones who make the most.

yeah non-lockstep often have a share/points system that gives you "units" of distribution based upon your share/points

and yes, in some of those systems, the rainmakers take a disproportional hit

[wiseowl]

Do ya'll think W&C moves up to $220k?

Not immediately. When firms moved to 160K, W&C went to 165K and stayed for a while - not sure when the next bump up came but it was months later at least. I think they might go 185/190 and then adjust upwards if need be.

W&C has been at $200k for over a year now. But they'd start becoming "below market" by year 3--when like half the summers actually start working. They'd have to move to 220, right? At least to retain the talent they have now

They have no bonuses. They are below market year 2 now
.

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

What the hell kinda defeatist Quisling shit is this

What has Biglaw done to you man

Once you become a grownup and try to get mortgages and other things based on your salary, you will realize why this is important. Good luck telling a bank "yea my salary is X but every year I get ____ bonus (as long as my heart doesn't explode)!"

[lionelhutz123]

I've seen lists for DC, Houston, CA, and Chicago, but any list for firms with Boston offices that have matched? Off the top of my head: Skadden, Weil, Cooley...any others? Pretty sure the Boston-based places will be slow to move. Going to need pressure from other places with offices in the city, plus maybe Ropes/WH pressure from their NY and DC offices.

[TLSModBot]

Do ya'll think W&C moves up to $220k?

Not immediately. When firms moved to 160K, W&C went to 165K and stayed for a while - not sure when the next bump up came but it was months later at least. I think they might go 185/190 and then adjust upwards if need be.

W&C has been at $200k for over a year now. But they'd start becoming "below market" by year 3--when like half the summers actually start working. They'd have to move to 220, right? At least to retain the talent they have now

They have no bonuses. They are below market year 2 now
.

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

What the hell kinda defeatist Quisling shit is this

What has Biglaw done to you man

Once you become a grownup and try to get mortgages and other things based on your salary, you will realize why this is important. Good luck telling a bank "yea my salary is X but every year I get ____ bonus (as long as my heart doesn't explode)!"

Funny bc I'm actually at the home inspection for my new home-to-be right now (and it's not our first house purchase).

[Anonymous User]

So with Jones Day at 1M, could it even afford the move? I've heard they deflate their PPP by reinvesting much of their revenue towards future endeavors -- more long term oriented.

It's not like law firms have R&D departments. If JD were a big plaintiff-side firm that were investing in cases that could bring in the big bucks I'd believe it, but I don't think that's the case.

JD doesn't report their numbers, so that 1m number is an educated guess. It's also structured different than most peer firms (single partner track, lower parter:assoc ratio etc).


I'm desperately trying to predict what they'll do for obvious reasons.

They also have a weird partner compensation thing. They don't have equity/nonequity. Everyone just gets paid what the compensation committee/managing partner sets. There's no origination credits or anything (at least overtly), and no partner knows what anyone else makes, which is very different from most firms.

So potential for less bitterness about who is bearing the brunt of the raises, because no one knows unless their pay takes an obvious decline next year.

If I remember right, don't they set compensation sometime in the summer anyway? I seem to remember compensation memos going out during the summer.

Word is that Jones Day isn't going to match. Can anyone confirm?

[wiseowl]

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

What the hell kinda defeatist Quisling shit is this

What has Biglaw done to you man

Once you become a grownup and try to get mortgages and other things based on your salary, you will realize why this is important. Good luck telling a bank "yea my salary is X but every year I get ____ bonus (as long as my heart doesn't explode)!"

Funny bc I'm actually at the home inspection for my new home-to-be right now (and it's not our first house purchase).

Well, pwnt to me then. Congrats.

[smaug]

Can't confirm but this would hurt JD more than pretty much anyone else in the big leagues.

[TLSModBot]

i wouldn't mind having higher salary an NOBONUS

every year im so worried about hitting hours for BONUS and possibly ending up NOBONUS

What the hell kinda defeatist Quisling shit is this

What has Biglaw done to you man

Once you become a grownup and try to get mortgages and other things based on your salary, you will realize why this is important. Good luck telling a bank "yea my salary is X but every year I get ____ bonus (as long as my heart doesn't explode)!"

Funny bc I'm actually at the home inspection for my new home-to-be right now (and it's not our first house purchase).

Well, pwnt to me then. Congrats.

You are right though. I just like to poke fun at shrimpin's misery before I have to start living it myself in a couple months.

[TLSModBot]

Can't confirm but this would hurt JD more than pretty much anyone else in the big leagues.

There is one big data piece we don't have which is the extent to which the firms use debt to fund/bolster Net operating income early in the year (after year-end draws but before client bills sufficiently replace funds). Firms that rely on debt are more likely to have cash flow problems or be vulnerable if things like partner defections unexpectedly occur in decent numbers.

There's a good article on the mechanics of this I need to dig up.

[Anonymous User]

Word is that Jones Day isn't going to match. Can anyone confirm?

Idk how anyone would know when it's basically just up to Brogan.

Edit: they especially can't not match nyc. I would think that's a given at this point. There's too many other choices for a 2L to go with. It would ensure they would only get people who literally only got an offer from them.

[Anonymous User]

Word is that Jones Day isn't going to match. Can anyone confirm?

Idk how anyone would know when it's basically just up to Brogan.

Yeah, this. All the summers had to sit through a history of the firm thing, and they were selling us on the perks of the firm structure and how the managing partner makes unilateral decisions. Then I realized they were selling to us the perks of a dictatorship.

[Anonymous User]

Weil's summers must have felt real special last night --being treated to box seats at Citifield for the Beyonce concert (on the same day the upcoming raises were confirmed). MBN.

[Anonymous User]

The bigger TX firms have to start moving soon, right? With so many TX offices matching Cravath the hometown firms are going to have to do the same , especially the ones with a significant national presence outside TX.

[Anonymous User]

The bigger TX firms have to start moving soon, right? With so many TX offices matching Cravath the hometown firms are going to have to do the same , especially the ones with a significant national presence outside TX.

One would think. If they do not want to be relegated to much lower ranks in recruitees' eyes--especially at non-TX schools--they will need to match.

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Word is that Jones Day isn't going to match. Can anyone confirm?

Idk how anyone would know when it's basically just up to Brogan.

Edit: they especially can't not match nyc. I would think that's a given at this point. There's too many other choices for a 2L to go with. It would ensure they would only get people who literally only got an offer from them.

Am I wrong in thinking that the calculus here is to hold onto midlevels, not 2Ls?